tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post9212537653316653350..comments2024-03-29T00:43:16.029-07:00Comments on Robert Dyer @ Bethesda Row: WHITE FLINT MALL SIGN GOES DARK AFTER MALL CLOSES, P.F. CHANG'S STRIPPED (PHOTOS)Robert Dyerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comBlogger151125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-71610463392080291582015-02-04T12:56:09.888-08:002015-02-04T12:56:09.888-08:00@Robert Dyer: What year are you referring to? 2010...@Robert Dyer: What year are you referring to? 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013? Of course things declined after shops started to shut down, but prior to that, the mall was fully-leased.<br /><br />Dunno about that, I seem to think that way prior to 2010 that there were quite a few empty storefronts there. And IMHO having regular business offices up on the top floor does not necessarily qualify as the best use of retail space. Face it, the Lerners pretty much screwed the pooch with bad leasing policies.pstocknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-61876684823560146662015-01-12T18:35:53.253-08:002015-01-12T18:35:53.253-08:006:36: If the stated purpose was to maintain a rail...6:36: If the stated purpose was to maintain a rail facility for commuters, why would they have allowed the tracks to be torn up? The current Purple Line concept is nothing like the original commuter rail plan I am referring to, which was first proposed in 1955 by the County Council. Tearing up tracks while claiming support for commuter rail indeed raises questions of "consistency in their positions."Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-37156843437880923312015-01-12T18:15:50.118-08:002015-01-12T18:15:50.118-08:006:30: Good, now at least you're acknowledging...6:30: Good, now at least you're acknowledging that the plan is to encroach and demolish single-family home residential neighborhoods. <br><br />Did Lowen's go out of business by choice, or was it no longer able to keep up with rising rents? Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-44573952554941068382015-01-12T06:36:05.120-08:002015-01-12T06:36:05.120-08:00"But why did the County drop the ball and tea..."But why did the County drop the ball and tear up the tracks, rather than develop commuter rail service from Silver Spring to Georgetown?"<br /><br />First, the County didn't "tear up the tracks". That would be CSX. Scrap iron is valuable, and track-related equipment can be reused on other lines.<br /><br />Second, your position on "commuter rail service from Silver Spring to Georgetown" hilariously contradicts your position on the Purple Line.<br /><br />Do you EVER check what you write to see if there is any consistency in your positions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-34158930387397565742015-01-12T06:30:47.095-08:002015-01-12T06:30:47.095-08:00LOL, I am making zero "generalizations"....LOL, I am making zero "generalizations". I am pointing out how YOUR generalizations are hilariously wrong, on a point-by-point basis.<br /><br />"You're just putting more cars on the road, and destroying the suburban character of the neighborhoods out there."<br /><br />That has to be your most hilarious statement of the new year.<br /><br />"the closures of some businesses and demolitions of some buildings in Bethesda were absolutely the result of planning decisions made back in the 1970s and 80s. Just because a particular property didn't redevelop until years later, it doesn't mean there wasn't a connection"<br /><br />LOL, keep clinging to your nonsense. I repeat, the demise of Hot Shoppes, Lowens, Swensens and the K-B Baronet West had nothing to do with County policies.<br /><br />"Some stations are located adjacent to single-family home neighborhoods, and it would be absurd to have high-rises there"<br /><br />Why? Why must single-family neighborhoods remain such in perpetuity? That's not how cities grow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-34161212306138716632015-01-12T05:26:39.786-08:002015-01-12T05:26:39.786-08:00Doesn't mean there was "absolutely" ...Doesn't mean there was "absolutely" a connection either. I'm just saying. :)Albertnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-798599334436207882015-01-11T23:07:22.272-08:002015-01-11T23:07:22.272-08:008:27: What year are you referring to? 2010, 2011, ...8:27: What year are you referring to? 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013? Of course things declined after shops started to shut down, but prior to that, the mall was fully-leased. If the businesses could pay their rent, they must have been moderately successful at least.Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-47797858320761632322015-01-11T23:04:58.878-08:002015-01-11T23:04:58.878-08:006:47: You're all over the place here, and maki...6:47: You're all over the place here, and making all kinds of broad generalizations.<br /><br />Westbard is not near a Metro station. Therefore, high-density and urban-style development is completely inappropriate and irresponsible there.<br /><br />Urban areas in edge cities like downtown Bethesda and downtown Silver Spring are appropriate for high-density. I never said just Bethesda alone.<br /><br />All Metro stations are not created equal. Development appropriate at Dupont Circle or downtown Bethesda may not appropriate at Twinbrook or Glenmont. Some stations are located adjacent to single-family home neighborhoods, and it would be absurd to have high-rises there. The point of Metro to Glenmont or Shady Grove wasn't to build cities out there; it was to get as many people as possible to ride to work on Metro rather than use the roads. Of course developers approach this differently, with profits in mind.<br /><br />As I've repeatedly said, Metro capacity declines the farther out you go on the Red Line. It also becomes more and more inconvenient for the commuter, and a less attractive option. Therefore, sensible planning would never try to put the density of population applicable to an edge city to Rockville or Glenmont. You're just putting more cars on the road, and destroying the suburban character of the neighborhoods out there.<br /><br />This is a well-reasoned approach to development, and I have been consistent all along. I've lost count of how many times I went over this philosophy when I ran for office last year.Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-63433002634725123862015-01-11T22:52:16.970-08:002015-01-11T22:52:16.970-08:005:56: Frank, the closures of some businesses and d...5:56: Frank, the closures of some businesses and demolitions of some buildings in Bethesda were absolutely the result of planning decisions made back in the 1970s and 80s. Just because a particular property didn't redevelop until years later, it doesn't mean there wasn't a connection. The same sort of plans and decisions were responsible for the decline of the commercial areas in Glenmont and Wheaton, and those officials can't shirk responsibility for that just because the media is in their back pocket.<br /><br />Yes, I know the rail line was abandoned. One factor in the abandonment was the railroad's awareness that Montgomery County's long-term plans would eliminate the industrial areas where it might have otherwise found future customers. But why did the County drop the ball and tear up the tracks, rather than develop commuter rail service from Silver Spring to Georgetown? That was a huge mistake. The Purple Line fiasco is those chickens coming home to roost now. Montgomery County's "brilliant" politicians have repeatedly proven they don't recognize nor care about highly valuable transportation facilities, whether they be for roads, railroads or streetcars.<br /><br />No, I don't think everything should be frozen in time. But there's no reason to get rid of the good along with the bad.Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-4939189739347510652015-01-11T08:27:09.718-08:002015-01-11T08:27:09.718-08:00Other tha the couple of big restaurants, no one el...Other tha the couple of big restaurants, no one else seemed to have been doing well. And there were no customers in the mall. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-7641990423386921332015-01-11T06:47:59.891-08:002015-01-11T06:47:59.891-08:00"Nice try. Hot Shoppes disappeared everywhere..."Nice try. Hot Shoppes disappeared everywhere, not just in Bethesda."<br /><br />Yes, that was my point. Apparently you're too clueless to realize that your comment of 7:40 PM implied that the demise of the Bethesda Hot Shoppes was due to a County "decision" rather than the demise of the chain.<br /><br />"[T]here's no compelling argument for change in the suburbs of Montgomery County like Westbard, Chevy Chase, Potomac, Kensington, Rockville, Wheaton..."<br /><br />Originally your argument was that Westbard shouldn't have increased density because it is not near a Metro station. Now you're excluding areas that are actually near Metro stations - Rockville and Wheaton, as well? What is your basis for opposing redevelopment of every place in the county... EXCEPT BETHESDA? There is no consistency in your arguments at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-36607580147764937222015-01-11T06:03:01.779-08:002015-01-11T06:03:01.779-08:00"the town centers look like other town center..."the town centers look like other town centers"<br /><br />"the bland, cookie cutter design of them."<br /><br />And he just keeps repeating his talking points without even bothering to consider why most commenting here don't feel they are true. What's the point of even having a discussion?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-82763401968415788982015-01-11T05:56:31.397-08:002015-01-11T05:56:31.397-08:00Swensen's closed its locations in Tenley and G...Swensen's closed its locations in Tenley and Georgetown as well as that in Bethesda. They currently have only three locations in the entire country (San Francisco, Coral Gables, FL and Midland, TX). Absolutely nothing to do with any "planning decision". The Bethesda location closed long before the Bethesda Square/Woodmont Corner building was demolished in 2005.<br /><br />The KB Baronet West closed in 1988. The Georgetown Square/Woodmont Corner building was demolished in 2005.<br /><br />Lowen's went out of business in 1992 because the owner retired. THE BUILDING WHICH HOUSED IT IS STILL THERE.<br /><br />THE DEMISE OF THESE BUSINESSES HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH COUNTY PLANNING POLICIES.<br /><br />Why do you persist in your silly notions which are so easily disproven?<br /><br />Also, what is it that you miss about "the railroad"? A once-a-week coal train to the GSA plant in Georgetown? To a coal generating plant that is no longer there? Do you realize it was CSX's decision to abandon this rail line?<br /><br />Do you want all of Montgomery County to be frozen in time, as a museum to your childhood? It sure seems that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-85025419558299200772015-01-11T00:32:18.816-08:002015-01-11T00:32:18.816-08:007:56: Nice try. Hot Shoppes disappeared everywhere...7:56: Nice try. Hot Shoppes disappeared everywhere, not just in Bethesda. The disappearance of some of the businesses I mentioned, as well as others I didn't, absolutely WAS the result of a planning decision. Land use decisions that incentivized demolition of existing businesses and properties in downtown Bethesda were made long before the redevelopment occurred. Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-59081343917477044482015-01-11T00:25:46.303-08:002015-01-11T00:25:46.303-08:003:02: Plenty of malls lose anchors and replace the...3:02: Plenty of malls lose anchors and replace them. The mall was otherwise fully leased, and the restaurants were still drawing a crowd.Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-59073790965195361082015-01-11T00:24:25.540-08:002015-01-11T00:24:25.540-08:008:13: Not every town is homogenous, but you are mi...8:13: Not every town is homogenous, but you are missing the point: the problem is that the town centers look like other town centers, not that they are uniform within their own property.<br /><br />People may like the businesses in them, but few are thrilled about the bland, cookie cutter design of them. Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-18937161839206058032015-01-10T19:56:55.560-08:002015-01-10T19:56:55.560-08:00"I was definitely not happy to see Hot Shoppe..."I was definitely not happy to see Hot Shoppes, Lowens, Swensen's, Baronet II, and the railroad go. But once that decision was made..."<br /><br />Are you suggesting that all, or even any, of these places closed because of any urban planning decision? I can assure you that Swensen's and the Baronet II were closed long before the Bethesda Square/Woodmont Corner building was demolished in 2005. And same deal with the Hot Shoppes - gone several years before that site was cleared in 1998. Lowen's went out of business in 1992, but the building which housed it is still there.<br /><br />Really, I thought you knew local history better than that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-71390582288694271602015-01-10T19:37:21.592-08:002015-01-10T19:37:21.592-08:00Completely dead mall whenever I went. Completely dead mall whenever I went. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-1336393275249618602015-01-10T15:05:04.415-08:002015-01-10T15:05:04.415-08:00"I do believe the 1950s-80s were the pinnacle..."I do believe the 1950s-80s were the pinnacle of suburban development, in creating...green space."<br /><br />What an utter crock.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-10175592221965168922015-01-10T15:02:43.555-08:002015-01-10T15:02:43.555-08:00White Flint lost two of its three anchors in just ...White Flint lost two of its three anchors in just a year. How many times do you need to be reminded of this? NOT a viable mall.<br /><br />Why do you keep persisting in these fantasies that are directly contradicted by reality?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-62573884117445222712015-01-10T10:06:36.354-08:002015-01-10T10:06:36.354-08:00I like Rockville Town Square and the other new dev...I like Rockville Town Square and the other new developments, but old downtowns are not homogeneous architecture. They tend to be the opposite since they are developed organically. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-32321919259555497572015-01-10T08:13:52.264-08:002015-01-10T08:13:52.264-08:00How stupid of Dyer to compare "new" down...How stupid of Dyer to compare "new" downtowns to "old" downtowns. First, those "old" downtowns are almost always architecturally homogenous. Walk around various DC neighborhoods and literally every building on the block is identical to the every other building on the block (save color, sometimes). The "new" downtowns of Rockville, Silver Spring, Bethesda Row, White Flint are all excellent spaces that have near-universal appeal. They're well executed and thought out.<br /><br />If you don't like them, that's fine, but quit pretending that everyone else on the planet are fucking idiots because they enjoy the spaces. You aren't better than us, Dyer. You whine that we're all elitists when you're the asshole pissing on everyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-50854765101134092842015-01-10T07:40:57.004-08:002015-01-10T07:40:57.004-08:006:12: My point is, why not create a sense of place...6:12: My point is, why not create a sense of place by using unique architecture and design? I haven't seen any failed indoor malls being replaced here, because White Flint Mall was not failing. I do believe the 1950s-80s were the pinnacle of suburban development, in creating a model for a higher quality of life, convenience and green space. In terms of downtown areas, I was definitely not happy to see Hot Shoppes, Lowens, Swensen's, Baronet II, and the railroad go. But once that decision was made, I've accepted the change, and was looking forward to the future of downtown Bethesda. But there's no compelling argument for change in the suburbs of Montgomery County like Westbard, Chevy Chase, Potomac, Kensington, Rockville, Wheaton, etc. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-46204664861003680812015-01-10T07:28:56.689-08:002015-01-10T07:28:56.689-08:00Albert, keep in mind that Woodmont Triangle is rea...Albert, keep in mind that Woodmont Triangle is really just getting started. It's also a far larger area than Bethesda Row.Robert Dyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01975969463714952623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28521945.post-26355973005912510162015-01-10T06:12:39.186-08:002015-01-10T06:12:39.186-08:00Your complaint about "an artificial sense at ...Your complaint about "an artificial sense at placemaking" might have been valid if it were actually places like "downtown Frederick or Hagerstown" that were being torn down and replaced by these new town centers.<br /><br />But that's not what's happening. It is 1960s and 1970s strip malls and failed enclosed malls that are being replaced. Rockville Town Center was built on the ashes of Rockville Mall and adjacent areas that were developed at the same time. And, regarding the Mosaic Center, you seem to be the only one I know who waxes nostalgic for the "old" Merrifield.<br /><br />It almost seems to me that you think that the pinnacle of development occurred in the 1960s and 1970s, and that you don't want anything from that "golden era" of your childhood touched. Am I correct?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com