7820 will include 320 units, 9,000 GSF of retail, and a 5-level underground parking garage. 25% of the units will be designated as affordable.
Rendering courtesy Design Collective
All rights reserved
Tuesday, February 27, 2018
New renderings of 7820 Wisconsin Avenue tower - possible tallest building in Bethesda (Photos)
7820 will include 320 units, 9,000 GSF of retail, and a 5-level underground parking garage. 25% of the units will be designated as affordable.
Rendering courtesy Design Collective
All rights reserved
Nice tall and slender tower! Too bad they could not control and develop the whole block. I thought the master plan suggested that Veterans Park should be expanded onto this block, perhaps now the only option would be on the south side of the tower as a gateway to the Woodmont Triangle District from Wisconsin. Isn’t that the Union Hardware site?
ReplyDeleteBethesda is becoming the new Crystal City!
ReplyDelete5:53: Yes, that plan is shot at this point, as is the potential for locating a replacement cineplex for the Regal Cinemas on this block.
ReplyDeleteWas a cinema ever considered or proposed by an actual property owner or developer? Or just wishful thinking on our parts?
DeleteWhy not give a description of what exists at this site currently, for your readers? I had to Google that address to figure out that it is the block with the 7-11.
ReplyDeleteI follow robert and other sites and had to think twice about where he was referring to also.
DeleteThat site is barely the size of the Bethesda Theater (now "Jazz and Supper Club"). Good luck trying to put a 20-screen multiplex there.
ReplyDeleteThis won't see a shovel for at least 10 years thanks in part to the lack of experience and equity from the developer unlike the group behind Westbard that has the experience and equity.
ReplyDeleteNot so moribund after all, it seems!
ReplyDeleteMcDonald's has been gone for several years now, and 7-11 is about to go. And the same will happen soon in White Flint. Looks like we'll all have to go to Westbard to eat junk food anymore.
ReplyDeleteBig, big, big!
ReplyDeleteBaaa! Baaaaa! Baaaaaa!
ReplyDeletethis is not the UH site, and was never intended for a Veterans Park expansion. The Union Hardware/Reddz Trading side of the block was floated as a potential possibility for a Veterans Park expansion, but I don't see how expanding a park across a busy thoroughfare makes any sense. The "black-box" theater idea was nixed a long time ago.
ReplyDeleteThe renderings look like the ones shown to the Design Advisory Panel two months ago.
Normally I would agree with 7:09, but hopefully the property owners can partner with an experienced developer to bring the experience and equity. They shouldn't have to look too far given the fact that they can build taller than pretty much everyone else and they'll be next door to the future hq of the largest and most highly-regarded private employer in MoCo.
as to whether its the tallest or not, that's debatable. The planning regs only count and limit roof height, not actual architectural height. This project, the Marriott hq, and Apex building all extend 10-30 feet beyond 300. Then there's the Brookfield project at 4 Bethesda Metro.
5:55
ReplyDeletewhy do people always compare Bethesda to Crystal City?
CC is a dense office park with 60-year old buildings that mostly emptied out after it was hammered by BRAC. If anything CC is trying to become more like Bethesda.
6:34: The potential for a theater was raised by me, when the whole block was originally to be redeveloped as one project. It would need to be something of that size to fit 10 or more screens at surface and below-grade.
ReplyDelete7:31: The economy is much more than residential housing - which is why we have a structural deficit, and a moribund County economy. Residential development creates a net LOSS of revenue, due to the services and school costs it generates.
8:19, is there a source for the residential developments creating a new loss of revenue? That is what’s on a lot of resident’s minds, but it hasn’t ever really been clarified.
DeleteThe guy who has lived in Montgomery County all his life, and has never worked a day of his life, now says we need to have people working but not living in our County.
ReplyDeleteYes, $80M high rise residential projects are a net-loss for jurisdictions. That's why DC/MoCo/Arlington/PG/Fairfax/Alexandria all compete so heavily to attract said development. All those jurisdictions are really dumb compared to Robert. Robert knows more than everyone else. Moribund MoCo with their billions of dollars in new construction. No one wants to live half a block from a Fortune 500; only Robert is smart enough to know that! This building will be filled with kids. And not the nice Westbard kids; I mean the poors! The poors are all over Bethesda now and it's because Hans Reimer hates the nightlife!
ReplyDelete8:42: They already live here. Now we need to bring in jobs for them.
ReplyDelete8:33: The source is the tax coffers of Montgomery County government. We've had residential growth of as high as 800% (Clarksburg) in the last two decades. Explosive development. Yet, as you notice, we're in the red with a structural budget deficit as far out as the forecast goes.
If residential development actually created a net gain in revenue, we would be flush with cash right now. Instead, we have a $120000000 shortfall this year. It has now been definitively proven that residential development does not generate a net gain in revenue.
You’re saying Robert is providing “constructive” criticism?
Delete8:54: You conveniently left out that those jurisdictions (D.C. and NoVa in particular) have all the high-wage jobs, as well as the residential. And some of those have overspent, if not to the degree MoCo has, and are having to raise taxes thanks to their ideologically-driven fiscal mismanagement.
ReplyDeleteYet, they are not in the fiscal hole we are in, thanks to the job centers they have. We literally have the budget size of a state or small country. We can't go on like this.
"If residential development actually created a net gain in revenue, we would be flush with cash right now."
ReplyDeleteHave you not seen how much the budget has grown in recent years? How many new public projects have been built this decade? How large the rainy day fund has grown?
Just because a revenue projection was revised downward by half a percent doesn't negate all that. The county thinking its tax revenue grew to $5,500,000,000 but instead it grew to $5,440,000,000 doesn't mean we aren't adequately growing. The fact I even have to explain this to you is rather embarrassing, Robert.
"You conveniently left out that those jurisdictions (D.C. and NoVa in particular) have all the high-wage jobs, as well as the residential."
ReplyDeleteTHIS PROJECT WILL BE ACROSS THE STREET FROM A FORTUNE 500 WITH OVER THREE THOUSAND JOBS. BETHESDA CURRENTLY HAS MILLIONS OF SQFT OF OFFICE SPACE UNDER CONSTRUCTION. How is it that you don't know these things, Robert?
"We literally have the budget size of a state or small country."
ReplyDeleteMontgomery County - Population - 1 million; Budget - $5.4 billion; Deficit - $120 million
District of Columbia - Population - 700,000; Budget - $14 billion; Deficit - $500 million - $1 billion
9:06: What you said makes no sense. We either are generating net positive revenue to cover the costs of services, schools, infrastructure, or we aren't. And the deficit proves we aren't.
ReplyDeleteThis means we have to start growing something besides housing units, and also limit the growth of housing units until it is in line with what we can cover the services and infrastructure that housing requires.
Infinite growth is a fantasy. At some point, we do have to pull up the ladders.
9:11: You do realize D.C. has been a boom town, and had a big budget surpluse in recent years thanks to its jobs and booming economy? They were arguing over whether to give a tax cut one year recently. We have a deficit. Every. Year. And our economy is moribund.
ReplyDeleteSo why don't you move to DC?
ReplyDeleteWhy do folks say "why don't you move?" as a response to constructive criticism?
ReplyDeleteIf someone thinks a city, county or country is great, but could be greater, just moving out makes no sense.
I'm still just amazed at how weak the night life is in Bethesda
ReplyDeleteRobert, I don't think you understand the basics on this issue. Governments at the state and local level spend as much as their projected revenue, whether that's $2B or $5B. Local government isn't a business; the goal isn't "generating net positive revenue." If a government is sitting on a pile of cash at the end of the year that means the budget is being mismanaged. Either the jurisdiction didn't provide enough in services or it collected too much in taxes.
ReplyDeleteMoCo revising their income projection down isn't a good thing, but it's not inherently bad, either. What matters is the county's response. They could have done nothing (eaten away at rainy day fund), they could have raised taxes, or they could have trimmed the budget. They chose to trim the budget, which I agree with. If you don't and think they should have raised taxes or tapped the rainy day fund then that's fine, but it's also why you're not elected to office.
Anyone who says Robert Dyer offers "constructive criticism" is a Sheepshill Sockpuppet.
ReplyDelete9:28am agreed. who'd think bethesda would regress from 2000 or even 2010 in terms of nightlife?
ReplyDeleteIs it demographic changes in the downtown or loss of nightlife options?
The same thing happened to Georgetown in previous decades. As it became more popular, rents went up, the residents got richer and older, and there was more opposition to noisy bars and clubs, and the bars and clubs themselves could no longer afford the rents.
ReplyDeleteI think Bethesda has more competition than before: downtown Silver Spring is arguably better and now there's Pike & Rose, Rockville Town Square, Crown, etc.
ReplyDeleteThere's less of a reason for folks to drive down to Bethesda if you can get similar stuff closer to you.
Bethesda UP and other stakeholders hopefully understand this.
"there was more opposition to noisy bars and clubs"
ReplyDeleteCase in point: The harassment campaign against Parva by one or more residents of the Fairmont Plaza, which resulted in its closure.
10:08 to be fair, Weren’t they in constanrviatkon of noise ordinances?
Delete"I think Bethesda has more competition than before"
ReplyDeleteYep. Why would someone from Gaithersburg or Rockville or Silver Spring go to Bethesda regularly when they've got Downtown Crown, Rockville Town Square, and downtown Silver Spring down the street? The Fillmore, alone, is probably a bigger nightlife draw than all of Bethesda combined.
Our county needs new employers, not more residents. And the previously stellar MCPS cannot even properly educate the students whom are currently enrolled in its schools.
ReplyDeletePrediction: There will be no more parks in Bethesda. We'll be lucky if the current parking lots are even turned into small parks.
ReplyDelete4:50 PM No open space or parks in on trend. The Westbard Plan doesn't dedicate nearly enough park space either, considering it is a family oriented area.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that a few urban parks are a nice thing to have mixed into a city, this area as a whole has and enormous number of very large green spaces. The one between the Giant and the library, the large park and recreation fields south of town, Elm Street Park, not to mention the incredible linear park known as the Capital Crescent Trail connecting all the way to Georgetown and soon to the world class Rock Creek Park and downtown Silver Spring. Rock Creek Park is an incredible natural resource for the area and an easy bike ride from Bethesda, connecting all the way south to DC and north to several large lakes. Very few cities in the world have this much green space embedded in their cities. The park has been referred to as the “lungs” of the DC area. Cabin John has a huge park and walking trail nearby. The Great Falls National Park is a world class natural space only a short drive from Bethesda. Bethesda is only a 20 minute subway ride from one of the world most famous green spaces, the National Mall. not to mention incredible places like Meridian Park, the National Arboreum, the Tidal Basin, and hundreds of great urban plazas scattederd all over the DMV. Two freakin’ rivers wrap around the DMV with many great waterfront parks.
ReplyDeleteYes, it would be great if Bethesda had a large central town square with some flexible green space, but the expanded Vetrans Park, the urban plaza at the Metro Center, soon to be improved by Brookfield and the soon to be created Capital Crescent Trail Urban Plaza at the western terminis of the Purple Line are all fully capable of providing a nice shady place to relax in the city. Bethesda and the region are far from being devoid of parks and urban plaza’s.
The structural deficit in the county is due to profligate spending. The Council always comes up with new ways to waste money. Think of things like: small business loans (already done at the Federal level with SBA), student loans (again, already at Federal level), raising minimum wage (costs the county due to the people they pay under that rate currently).
ReplyDeleteIf you take a piece of vacant land and build housing on it, you're increasing tax revenues quite a bit. That property is now more valuable on it, often by many multiples, with a house or apartment on it. So the revenue from property taxes goes up considerably.
Let's take a tear-down house in Bethesda. If the 1950's house is $700k (land + house), then it's probably $500k land, $200k house. That's $7k a year in property tax revenue (1% tax rate). Then if that is torn down, the new house+land will go for at least $1.5m so now it's $15k a year in property tax revenue. Also, the person moving into a $1.5mln house has higher income (to pay that kind of mortgage) = more income tax revenue. They also spend more = more sales tax revenue.
Now the other more common case is creating new housing, like building on an empty lot. That can add more demand for services like schoolchildren, at $7-10k/year (I forget the cost per student at the moment). However, those children are not in school forever.
I agree we need a healthy mix, as being able to work close to your house = lower commuting times and less use of roads, but it's not that building housing is inherently bad from a fiscal perspective.