Bone Jour to take over
vacant Quincy's sports bar
The nighttime economy has come crashing down all across downtown Bethesda. Just days after the 17th downtown nightspot shuttered in the wake of the Montgomery County Council's Nighttime Economy Task Force catastrophe, one of the abandoned bars is going to the dogs - literally. Bethesda pet business Bone Jour has leased the vacant building at 4920-4922 Del Ray Avenue, which has sat empty since 2017.
Previously home to Quincy's and Hard Times Cafe, the sizable space will give Bone Jour more room to offer additional services for dogs and cats, which include grooming, pet boarding and obedience classes. Bone Jour is expected to move in before the end of summer. This reminds us of Councilmember Hans Riemer's bizarre proposal to have the County government "assess the health impacts of dogs, and assess the health impacts of cats." Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed on the Council, but unfortunately, they did not stop Riemer's disastrous "Nighttime Economy Initiative," which ended up tanking the nighttime economy in Montgomery County.
That's a good scoop I have to give it to you. That is the most ridiculous concept I've ever heard. This dumb concept will perhaps be the quickest failure in the history of modern Bethesda. WTF? We are begging for something great to open and this space is already built out for a bar/restaurant. Now they're going to rip it all out and install an upscale doggie spa? I cannot believe it.
ReplyDeleteWas hoping for a new bar/restaurant!
ReplyDeleteUnion Jack's, Tapp'd,
ReplyDeleteWho wants to hang out w' cougars and risk getting busted at DUI checkpoints when you could metro into the city and Uber back home instead?
ReplyDeleteDepends on the cougars.
DeleteThis ^
DeleteCrazy thought. Maybe the nightlife economy is failing because Bethesda is filled with rich old white people who don't go to bars?
ReplyDeleteHow dare a business that is managing to grow take over a spot that we want a ready-to-fail nightspot to lease?
ReplyDeleteHere's a business, owned locally, providing services that people currently want/need that's moving to a bigger space. They've been in business quite a while. Nice to see them grow.
That should be the story.
So I read through the list of implemented initiatives and those in progress, and I'm not seeing what's so disastrous? Robert, which of these initiatives do you believe is causing harm?
ReplyDelete@Anna, I agree with you. Bone Jour has been doing solid business on St. Elmo's for years, I'm glad they're successful enough that they want to expand.
5:56: Have you been to Bethesda recently? There are plenty of young people in town. You only see less after dark because they've been forced to go into the District after the County Council tanked nightlife in downtown Bethesda in recent years.
ReplyDelete6:09: There are two stories in one, and that's the insightful coverage and analysis readers expect from this website. If one was afraid to criticize our elected officials, maybe "that" should have been the only angle, but I'm not controlled by the cartel.
6:16: I would call a record 17 nightspot closures "disastrous" by any measure (that doesn't even include regular restaurants that closed).
ReplyDeleteThe biggest mistake was keeping the government liquor monopoly. Disastrous mistake, that along with other Council policies like $15 minimum wage, is killing bars and restaurants. They didn't address the need to attract and encourage contemporary, upscale Las Vegas-style nightclubs with the amenities young people expect like VIP bottle service. They didn't incentivize or require new downtown hotels to have rooftop nightclubs. They didn't expand the number of events and festivals in places like downtown Bethesda.
Most of the recommendations were years or decades out of date, like tiny changes other jurisdictions had made long ago to liquor laws, or calling for "more taxi stands" when young people had already switched to Uber.
Dyer stands alone in media in being willing to cover our local government with skepticism
ReplyDeleteWhat about the closures BEFORE then?
ReplyDeleteAll you ever talk about is AFTER the "initiative."
It must have been bad before to NEED a task force to study it to begin with.
"The biggest mistake was keeping the government liquor monopoly. Disastrous mistake..."
ReplyDeleteI too would like to see the DLC monopoly abolished, but how did it suddenly start to kill off businesses in 2015 after the NTETF report was released, when it has been in existence since 1951?
I love how Dyer assumes Bethesda nightlife has tanked because of the County Council. WRONG. Bethesda was a bigger nightlife spot a decade ago, sure. But, since then, nightlife has expanded all across MoCo -- Rockville Town Center, Crown, Rio, Pike and Rose and bars all along 355 have opened since that time. More spread out = less nightlife in Bethesda.
ReplyDeleteDo you really think Bethesda residents want to live next to "upscale Las Vegas-style nightclubs with the amenities young people expect like VIP bottle service. They didn't incentivize or require new downtown hotels to have rooftop nightclubs."
ReplyDeleteDyer: "They didn't expand the number of events and festivals in places like downtown Bethesda."
ReplyDeleteNTETF Report:
Recommendations no longer applicable or supported
The below recommendations are not being actively supported by the County government at this point for various reasons.
Recommendation: Development of Large-Scale Nighttime Events.
Status: All three urban areas are concerned about large scale events that may compete with surrounding businesses.
I take a drink every time Dyer writes "moribund" or "disastrous". It's 10am and I'm already drunk!
ReplyDeleteThere actually was an attempt at VIP-level service in Bethesda. It was at Cesco Osteria (the CO2 lounge section), and they offered a membership where you had access to a member-only VIP lounge, as well as limo service to DC. The main lounge was to have a DJ booth and fashion runway. I'm not making this up:
http://washingtonlife.com/2011/12/05/night-life-bethesda-lounge-act/
4935, when it had a club on the upper level, did offer reserved tables with bottle service, as did Parva.
"Dyer stands alone in media in being willing to cover our local government with skepticism"
ReplyDeleteHahahaha. You should Google Washington Post articles on Marc Elrich.
Hans is busy reducing speed limits. Maybe he'll spot them at "0" in downtown Bethesda so no one can leave. That will boost business!
ReplyDelete7:02: Of course the Post attacks Elrich, because he's not part of the MoCo cartel.
ReplyDelete7:00: The issue is not whether individual bars offered bottle service (I reported on bottle service that was offered at The Parva, Relic and BlackFinn before all 3 closed). The issue is why wasn't that addressed by the task force, instead of absurdities like "more taxi stands?"
6:59: Thanks for proving my point that no effort was made to add more events.
6:55: Young people certainly would.
6:53: That accounts for some of the reduction, but is not the main cause by far. People in Bethesda aren't going to Rockville and Gaithersburg for nightlife. They're going into the District and Northern VA. There are no hot scenes for singles anywhere in the County anymore, including the places you mentioned. And Rockville Town Center is on life support, so that sure as hell isn't a hot spot.
6:41: That's just it - there wasn't a problem. Until Hans Riemer started the Nighttime Economy Initiative, that is. The one problem was the liquor monopoly, which Riemer originally claimed he would end, but then did a 180 and made the monopoly even stronger.
Riemer had the same impact on food trucks, which were booming until he destroyed the whole food truck industry in MoCo.
I'm no expert on the nightlife economy or Downtown Bethesda development plan, but can we all agree that neither are helping Bethesda at this point?
ReplyDeleteDowntown Bethesda is not Leisure World, so I don't buy the argument that residents all suddenly became elderly in the past few years
Yes, Pike & Rose, Crown, etc. have opened but Crown & Rio are primarily family oriented/cargo short fathers, etc. - not at all what Arlington and DC are and what downtown Bethesda used to be.
Pike & Rose is doing well since they have a better lineup than Bethesda Row
"Of course the Post attacks Elrich, because he's not part of the MoCo cartel."
ReplyDelete11 of Dyer's 12 readers just spit their coffee all over their monitor screens.
"7:00: The issue is not whether individual bars offered bottle service (I reported on bottle service that was offered at The Parva, Relic and BlackFinn before all 3 closed). The issue is why wasn't that addressed by the task force?"
How would the NTETF or the Council go about encouraging bars to offer bottle service?
"6:59: Thanks for proving my point that no effort was made to add more events."
The NTETF considered it, and rejected it for the reasons stated.
"That's just it - there wasn't a problem. Until Hans Riemer started the Nighttime Economy Initiative, that is. The one problem was the liquor monopoly, which Riemer originally claimed he would end, but then did a 180 and made the monopoly even stronger."
You absolutely do not understand what the words "cause and effect relationship" mean.
"Riemer had the same impact on food trucks, which were booming until he destroyed the whole food truck industry in MoCo."
You really are an obsessive, delusional fruitcake.
Let's be clear- we need our elected officials to address downtown Bethesda business issues quickly. Convene a task force with business owners, residents, subject matter experts like Dyer, etc.
ReplyDelete7:25: No they didn't, because they know Elrich is the only elected official who isn't controlled by developers.
ReplyDeleteThe task force absolutely could have encouraged upscale bars with upscale service. They just didn't, because they apparently didn't understand nightlife in cities in the 21st century.
They were idiots to reject a clear need to add more than just art and Taste of Bethesda to the event calendar. That reflects badly on them, not me.
17 nightspots closed. That was definitely an "effect."
Explain why food trucks were booming in downtown Bethesda until Riemer had his $150,000 political operative Dan Hoffman run them off the streets under the guise of "helping food trucks," and then 97% went out of business or stayed on the other side of the D.C. border.
You seem to have trouble with the facts.
7:25 AM Didn't the county require food trucks register and essentially told them where they could go? With so many restaurants closing, downtown Bethesda could use more food trucks.
ReplyDelete"17 nightspots closed. That was definitely an "effect.""
ReplyDeleteYour tally starts at 2011, and includes several nightspots where other nightspots opened later. The NTETF did not release its report until 2015, and it took many more months after that for the Council to implement them. And you have not demonstrated a causal relationship regarding any of them.
"Explain why food trucks were booming in downtown Bethesda until Riemer had his $150,000 political operative Dan Hoffman run them off the streets under the guise of "helping food trucks," and then 97% went out of business or stayed on the other side of the D.C. border."
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
7:38: That's the central issue, not a "Gish gallop," moron. It's understandable you don't want to address what Riemer and his toady Hoffman really did to food trucks.
ReplyDeleteLifelong Bethesda resident. My take:
ReplyDeleteYes, Bethesda is very white, old, and affluent. The boomers are aging. They're everywhere. Look at what a house costs in any neighborhood surrounding downtown Bethesda. Not a great recipe for the young and hip, and those without loads of money. That's pretty immutable.
If the young and hip want a good bar, open one. Psyche Delly and Red Fox didn't require fancy surroundings and provided great entertainment. Plenty of cheap, crappy, old buildings in Woodmont triangle that would be fine for small clubs.
VIP tables...Las Vegas...really? I'll pass. Pass me a bottle of beer.
County liquor monopoly has always been ludicrous and hurts the restaurant industry. What gives? Someone is making money that shouldn't, and that policy needs to change years ago.
Restaurant owners had an issue with food trucks, also the Restaurant Association of Maryland,
ReplyDeleteIn Baltimore, they put in an ordinance "that limits parking of such food trucks within 300 feet of a restaurant selling the same type food" This law was upheld this year.
Since Dyer and #Dyer'sLittleHelper keep lying about what was actually proposed by the NTETF and enacted into law, here is the actual text about what was implemented:
ReplyDeletehttps://councilmemberriemer.com/category/night-time-economy
Recommendations successfully implemented [as of March 15, 2017]
Recommendation: Extend the hours of operation for venues with beer/wine/liquor licenses to 2 am on Sundays through Thursdays, and to 3 am on Fridays, Saturdays, and the Sundays before Monday federal holidays.
Status: HB-463 and SB-657 were passed were passed in support of the recommendation.
Recommendation: Expedite the creation of a social venue license, and modify the current alcohol to food ratio under the Class B beer/wine/liquor license from 50/50 to 60/40, to reflect the change in increased demand for higher quality, higher priced alcoholic beverages and to encourage establishment and operation of venues that host live music and other events.
Status: HB-142 and SB-300 were passed in support of the recommendation.
Recommendation: Develop an educational Patron Responsibility Program.
Status: Montgomery County Department of Liquor Control (DLC) has partnered with Brown-Forman and a designated driver program called “Be My Designated Driver” (BeMyDD), to encourage people to plan their night out and ensure a safe ride home. These programs are being promoted by alcohol serving venues with a planned community education program with private sponsorship.
Recommendations: Planning or Zoning Changes:
Amend zoning standards to provide flexibility in meeting public use space and open space requirements.
Support additional density in the County’s urban areas to foster a vibrant
nighttime economy.
Explore alternative, more attractive incentives for developers to include suitable, affordable performance spaces for small and emerging arts groups.
Status: The Montgomery County National Park and Planning Commission finalized in 2014 the Zoning Rewrite for the county which ultimately, updated zoning codes and the zoning map that helped address the recommendations listed above. One remaining opportunity revolves around understanding the opportunities available under the Arts & Entertainment Districts. The Department of Economic Development is helping draft information both for the Planning Department and other entities on the Arts & Entertainment Districts but also other related tax incentives that exist for developers including Enterprise Zones, Façade Improvements, Green Building Codes, the Public Art amenity, just to name a few.
Dyer: "They didn't expand the number of events and festivals in places like downtown Bethesda."
NTETF Report:
Recommendations no longer applicable or supported
The below recommendations are not being actively supported by the County government at this point for various reasons.
Recommendation: Development of Large-Scale Nighttime Events.
Status: All three urban areas are concerned about large scale events that may compete with surrounding businesses.
7:57 AM Have the event on one of the many streets that have gone "dark" because of nightime business closures, such as the end of Norfolk where the outdoor movies were or Auburn or this new Del Ray, which just has Guardados,the new Vape Shop and dog places coming (as reported by Dyer- #alwaysbeopeningandclosing), cigar place and M&N pizza carryout
ReplyDelete7:57: A barrage of irrelevancy - none of the laws passed saved the nighttime economy, and in fact, they tanked it.
ReplyDeleteHow does it help your argument to keep quoting a moronic, total BS assertion from the task force that events "compete with surrounding businesses?"
That's a total lie. Every other major downtown has parades, Oktoberfests, St. Patrick's Day, July 4, etc., etc. The surrounding businesses PARTICIPATE in those events, and it is their FOOD and BEVERAGE that are SOLD DURING SUCH EVENTS.
Bars around here would most definitely want to sell their beer at an Oktoberfest, for example. Businesses would want to ride down a main street during a parade to promote their business.
Common sense can be very useful at times.
7:56: We know restaurants didn't like it, and they are tenants of the developers who control Riemer. So he did their bidding. But that's not "helping food trucks," and in fact, Riemer destroyed the food truck industry in Montgomery County, costing us major tax and fee revenue. Heckuva job, Brownie!
7:53AM Me too. I've lived here longer than Dyer has been alive.
ReplyDeleteI remember places becoming popular more organically. And a lot of those places were dumps. Get together, have a few, chat up some folks. Have a couple here, move to another place.
They were fun places because we made them fun places.
Went out more after work. People went out more in general.
No, they are the businesses that contacted the Council and the RA complaining about the food trucks.
ReplyDeleteGet your FACTS correct before spouting misinformation.
You are LYING when you say "Riemer destroyed the food truck industry in Montgomery County" Flat out lying.
Time to tell the truth
8:05AM interesting that all of the surrounding towns- Silver Spring, Rockville, Gaithersburg, Damascus et al have parades that bring the community together. Not Bethesda though. We need it.
ReplyDeleteWith all the workers (+all of our construction crew friends working at Marriott, JBG, Avocet and Wilson projects) in Bethesda, food trucks would make a killing if they were allowed to enter downtown. Riemer, are you listening?
ReplyDeleteKensington has a nice Labor Day Parade. Yet Robert Dyer never, ever reports on Kensington, in spite of its being located right in the middle of the Bethesda-Rockville-East County coverage area.
ReplyDeleteI doubt if Gene Wilkes would be happy if there were food trucks next to either the 7900 or the Marriott sites.
ReplyDelete8:14 AM Kensington isn't Bethesda, my friend.
ReplyDeleteDyer covers Kensington in his EastMoco affiliate.
My question remains- why no parades or other large scale community events to bring Bethesda together?
8:15 AM Do construction workers frequent Tastee? I primarily see them ordering Big Bite hot dogs and the like at 7 Eleven, not sitting down in a diner.
ReplyDelete8:11: Sorry the truth hurts, but Riemer indeed destroyed food trucks. His own political operative, Dan Hoffman, carried out Riemer's plan. Food trucks were booming, but after Riemer's "help," the food truck industry cratered in Montgomery County.
ReplyDeleteI still remember getting tweets and DMs from food trucks reporting they had been told they could no longer operate on downtown streets, thanks to Riemer and Hoffman's scheme that was rammed through.
So now D.C. gets all the tax and fee revenue from food trucks, not us.
Heckuva job, Brownie!
"Dyer covers Kensington in his EastMoco affiliate."
ReplyDeleteDyer's EastMoCo blog has reported on Kensington just twice in its 6-year history.
June 12, 2018
"Car Wash Coffee targeting June opening in Kensington (Photos)"
May 9, 2018
"Kicks Karate to open in Kensington"
Bethesda Row area would be packed on a Summer weekend evening 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago.
ReplyDeleteAustin Grill, Unos, the old Haagen Dazs location, Regal Theaters courtyard packed.
Fast forward to 2019- pretty dead in comparison. Huge miss not to include a theater in the new Wilson building.
8:26am yup, the planning board could have required a high quality movie theater as they required a high quality restaurant at the Stonehall initially.
DeleteHuge miss by planning.
8:25AM Let's keep Kensington out of the nightlife discussion- it has none
ReplyDeleteAustin Grill is completely gone and Uno has only a fraction of the number of restaurants that it did 20 years ago. The Uno across from the Uptown is long gone.
ReplyDeleteHagen-Dazs next to the Landmark Bethesda Row 8 (which we are not allowed to mention here) is doing just fine.
8:32: Landmark Bethesda Row is an arthouse theater. They don't show the mainstream blockbusters.
ReplyDeleteBethesda Row restaurants would have killed for a cut of the Avengers: Endgame and Black Panther dining business that all went ELSEWHERE, thanks to the County Council.
8:32 AM Yes, I know. I'm just saying there was much, much more foot traffic and activity previously in that Elm Street corridor with the movie theater at it's heart.
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of restaurants do Avengers and Black Panther audiences typically patronize?
ReplyDelete8:42 AM those blockbuster audiences are basically everyone, so plenty of different restaurant tastes
ReplyDelete8:18AM - "why no parades or other large scale community events to bring Bethesda together?"
ReplyDeleteBecause Bethesda is not a registered town. Kensington was incorporated in the 1800's. With a town hall, mayor and council members. Gaithersburg - an incorporated town. Damascus- incorporated town.
Silver Spring is the anomaly, until you see that those parades are group-organized, like the Caribbean Festival, etc.
8:53: Damascus is not currently an incorporated town, and such status is in no way a requisite to hold events. We have groups. We have a county government. They're just not picking up the ball and creating new events.
ReplyDeleteHow can we have a "vibrant" downtown with no events for everyone to participate in, and build a stronger sense of community? It's ridiculous.
Yup- right from Wikipedia:
ReplyDelete"Damascus is a census-designated place and an unincorporated area in Montgomery County, Maryland, United States."
And yet they have huge community events. Not much in Bethesda to bring neighbors and neighborhoods together!
9:02 AM With all the restaurant closures, it's time for more food trucks, not less.
ReplyDeleteYou're right. Damascus USED to be incorporated, until 1914. But it has remained a community spot with community activities as it tries to retain it's small-town feeling. The big thing I see is the people continuing the community feeling, because people in rural areas are used to having a gathering place.
ReplyDeleteCommunity events aren't just a rural thing- plenty of them in DC and our neighbors in Northern VA.
DeleteWhy none in Bethesda?
AND all y'all are forgetting the Strut Your Mutt Parade we used to have in Bethesda.
ReplyDelete"Food trucks report[ed] they had been told they could no longer operate on downtown streets, thanks to Riemer and Hoffman's scheme that was rammed through."
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly was this "scheme"? What were the specific regulations that were implemented?
So now D.C. gets all the tax and fee revenue from food trucks, not us."
How much tax and fee revenue did the County previously get from food trucks?
9:14: If you are so poorly informed, what is your basis for questioning what I've said? I'm not your research assistant. You've got to inform yourself to be a credible participant in a debate. Unless you have staff like Riemer to give you cue cards to read from.
ReplyDeleteThat's a hoot. Turning the tables on readers? That's not how debates work. you have to be prepared to defend YOUR position.
ReplyDeleteAre you? Nope. You are spouting off that they did this and they did that. What exactly is it that they did?
What basis do you have for your comments?
9:15AM - yes and they're community-organized. Which community groups are YOU involved in? Ask them about having a parade.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering how Silver Spring would feel about the County paying for a parade in Bethesda.
Translation of Dyer @ 9:17 AM:
ReplyDelete"You caught me. I have no facts to suppert my wild claim. I made it all up."
10:08: Nope - every assertion I've made can be verified by a few internet searches. The point is, you have to do the work yourself, Saul Alinsky.
ReplyDelete"If every letter must receive a response, send 30,000 letters." - Saul Alinsky
Only good bar remaining is Saphire....
ReplyDeleteSapphire won't survive the redevelopment of that block I assume
ReplyDeleteCommunity events like Taste of Bethesda? Outdoor movies? Bethesda Row's arts festival? Cinco de Mayo-thon? Imagination Bethesda? The Turkey Trot? (Or Chase, I can never remember its proper name.) Community events like those?
ReplyDeleteThe Taste is the one big one, but what else?
DeleteThe arts festival isn't a draw and doesn't bind the community.
What makes you say the arts festival isn't a draw? I've been to a few and they're always super crowded.
ReplyDeleteTaste of Bethesda is obviously the biggest one of those, but each are community events that draw hundreds to thousands of people. What sort of events do you want to occur in Bethesda?
And to point out - Taste of Bethesda and Imagination Bethesda are both put on by BUP, the Bethesda Row arts festival is Federal Realty, the Thanksgiving Day race is the YMCA I think... Who should be organizing further events?
ReplyDeleteYes, liquor procurement practices in MoCo are arcane, but they have been, like forever, and they apply to the whole county, so that's not really the problem. Food trucks and bottle service are even less relevant, and are distractions in this discussion. Nobody gives a crap about bottle service.
ReplyDeleteThis kind of substantial retraction is caused by major market shifts, not by sporadic governmental fuckups, even if there were some.
The first problem is the overall size of the nightlife "pie" is shrinking everywhere. People aren't going to bars as much, and far more bars have been closing than opening throughout the 2000s, all over the US. Older bar-goers are retiring (as they always do) but they are not getting completely replaced by millenials, who are less likely to go to bars than younger adults were in the past.
Why downtown Bethesda is declining somewhat more than most is mainly because it's population mix skews older than the District's hot neighborhoods and more vibrant bar scenes. There are certainly more bar clusters in the District, and more younger people living in the district, than there were, say 20 years ago, and that's where they want to go out. But Bethesda isn't alone. Silver Spring isn't exactly rocking. Nor is Old Town Alexandria or downtown Rockville - all kinda quiet on Saturday night. Clarendon (in Arlington) may be the only nightlife zone outside the District that has actually done OK over the last 10-15 years (but even there, not without its share of casualties). The residential population mix around Clarendon seems to skew somewhat younger than Bethesda's, which would explain that.
12:35 PM The Arts Festival doesn't appeal to a mass audience, certainly not younger crowds. I've been to them too but nothing there is going to draw people in to experience Bethesda from surrounding areas and there's nothing community oriented to it for Bethesda neighbors.
ReplyDeleteTaste is one day and if the weather is bad, they cancel it. It is good for bringing people in from other areas certainly to get a "taste" of Bethesda restaurants.
Other places have parades, Oktoberfest, beer & wine festivals, hometown holidays, more multi-cultural evens, etc.
Monica @ 12:54 - Yes. Thanks.
ReplyDelete12:54 PM Yes, Clarendon has larger younger crowds, primarily due to the fact that Northern VA is where jobs are.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Bethesda was similar to Clarendon/Courthouse 10 years ago in demographics. Something has changed about our nightlife in that time!
They've built a huge amount of housing in downtown Bethesda in the last few years. It's not all old people living there -- plenty of younger folks too. I'm pretty sure they'd go out to the local bars if there were more of them. Heck, even Casa Oaxaca looks pretty good lately on the outdoor patio.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile the Council passed a law to ban smoking on outdoor patios. It only affected a few restaurants in MoCo, but nearly all were bars in Bethesda. Thanks, Riemer! Guess he couldn't let the free market figure that one out.
2:14pm
DeleteAgreed. that's why Bethesda is not "Georgetown". Lots of new housing built and more on the way!
Nightlife should be better than it is. What policy prescriptions are needed?
"They didn't address the need to attract and encourage contemporary, upscale Las Vegas-style nightclubs with the amenities young people expect like VIP bottle service."
ReplyDeleteWhy should the County government be involved in a private business' decision to offer bottle service?
For a conservative like Dyer who constantly complains about our County government, that would be a ridiculous amount of over-regulation and micromanagement of businesses.
If "VIP bottle service" is something that is desirable, then bars and restaurants certainly have an incentive to offer it.
I’m not sure, but it seems that Landmark Bethesda Row is stepping up their game somewhat and showing more mainstream movies, like Yesterday, Once Upon a Time In Hollywood, Late Night and a few others. They still show some art-house flicks, like Farewell, Maiden and Wild Rose, but seem to be offering a few more popular movies, which is a nice change. Perhaps they are aware of this void the area, that may get worse if iPic goes belly up.
ReplyDeleteLandmark is fine for adults who love independent or smaller films (I'm one of them). However, it has little to appeal to families, teens or younger adults.
DeleteAlso, do the seats recline?
If Dyer thinks that a bar with "bottle service" and a cineplex are what downtown Bethesda really need, why doesn't he step up to the plate and start or invest in such a bar or cineplex?
ReplyDeleteInstead of uselessly demanding that the government demand such amenities from the private sector?
A bar might be possible, but a cineplex really needs to be part of a new development.
DeleteSo far, we've only been teased by developers who show movie theaters and then pull them out of plans.
@ 8:39 PM - You've been teased by a developer?
ReplyDeletePoor you.
9:17pm yes, there have been atleast two developments with a movie theater in early stages. Both had them deleted. Big mistake!
Delete9:41: I personally suspect none of the theaters proposed were ever going to happen. There were 3 floated to my knowledge - One at 7272 Wisconsin that was a ruse.
ReplyDeleteAnother that was put out by County officials right as the disaster of losing the Regal was becoming apparent to all - another ruse, similar to their official announcement that the lack of disabled parking at the new Post Office had been "solved" (by forcing the disabled to walk the equivalent of two blocks from the Adagio garage), a classic tactic to put a fake solution in people's minds to get them to forget the crisis at hand and believe it was solved.
And a third that was a non-viable, one-screen theater that the developer used to get an extra story added beyond the zoning code allowance, which was quickly deleted when they figured out another way to get the same benefit.
4:15: None of the movies you mentioned were mainstream blockbusters. The Tarantino film just happened to be an arthouse movie with some mass appeal, and that happens once in a while at Landmark. The others were arthouse, as well.
The only mainstream film shown at Landmark in the last two years was Wonder Woman. Avengers, Spider-Man, The Lion King, etc. did not screen at Landmark this summer.
12:54: According to the bar owners themselves, the liquor monopoly is indeed a major problem. Several led the effort to overturn it in recent years.
Downtown Bethesda is declining because the places young people went mostly went out of business over the last several years. Ergo, the young people go into the District instead. It has also declined recently because of the loss of Regal Cinemas and Barnes & Noble, which has slashed the number of people in town on any given night, clearly measurable by the new surplus of parking spaces in Bethesda Row garages.
I would argue that young people, especially the ones we want to attract who have spending money for upscale venues, do "give a crap" about bottle service and VIP experiences. I understand that tired parents and the retired may not care about bottle service, but they are not the foundation of the "nighttime economy," as we were so loudly lectured by Mr. Riemer and his fellow travelers from 2011 onward. They literally said they would "make us hip," the media took that at face value without criticism, and instead tanked the nightlife scene we already had at the time.
You realize that the developer of the proposed mixed use residential tower at 7000 Wisconsin was forced to remove a floor from the building because they could not create a viable theater on such a small footprint? They did try to use that loophole that would give them an extra 10’ of height if they included a theatre, but the DAP would not let them proceed until they proved the theater concept with a viable layout.
ReplyDeleteAnother reason they took off a floor was that the lowered building is not required to provide tower separation from its future neighbors, and now has Sketch Plan Approval for a full width tower, with solid party walls on the north and south sides.
It turns out that the Downtown Bethesda Sector Plan’s goal of having lots of separation at the higher levels is not quite as easy as they thought. These small mid-block site are difficult to develop with any viable density if they all need to provide the desired building separation to provide light air and views.
The most common first question a developer will ask of their architect is exactly what is the maximum building that can be built on a given site, using what ever loopholes, bonuses or density increases are possible. With the high cost of land and construction, developers no longer primarily seek the “best” or most appropriate planning solution, but simply the maximum amount of buildable area they can squeeze on the site. Creative designers can mitigate this mandate, but often struggle.
This theater height bonus is a good example of an unintended consequence of the Sector Plan. No language about how large or viable the theater had to be to get that height bonus. Good thing the DAP caught this, or we would likely have a vacant theater space on Wisconsin.
6:53: Fortunately, like every other major issue, I've been proven correct in my negative assessment of the Bethesda Downtown Plan. It's been a disaster, and one we'll have to live with for 50-100 years.
ReplyDeleteI believe the developer knew the theater wasn't viable from the beginning. I would presume a professional in the business would know at least as much about movie theaters in 2019 as I and the DAP do before proposing one, and spending the large sums to draw up plans that included one.
A one-screen theater hasn't been financially viable since the early 1980s, due to major cinema chains using their Washington lobbyists to rig the system in their favor.
The Planning Board and staff were either too dumb, or just trying to help the developers skate, when not describing a viable, multi-screen cineplex rather than "a theater."
The theater should have gone into the building (Wilson) replacing the Apex building. Right at the purple line station, next to a metro entrance and easy stroll to restaurants.
ReplyDeleteWe're going for truth here, not conspiracy theory opinion.
ReplyDeleteI am not positive, but I believe the developer of 7000 Wisconsin was hoping that the requirement for a theater might be met by including a simple black-box auditorium, and not a dedicated movie theatre. The DAP was quick to ask for proof that the proposed low ceiling area would function. No stepped seating was shown, or a plan of any sort. The DAP specifically asked for more evidence that this concept could work before they would offer support of the Sketch Plan Approval.
ReplyDeleteThe owner then simply chose to delete the “theater bonus“ floor, reducing the height below the point that tower separation is recommended.
They never planned to build a one-screen movie theater. They were trying to use a loophole in the poorly written height bonus regulation.
Black box theater? I've only heard interest in that from the toilet car Union Hardware guy.
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