Bethesda experienced something increasingly rare as July became August this year - nice summer weather without non-stop rain. I did some spot checks on the old "Barnes & Noble" plaza at the corner of Bethesda and Woodmont Avenues in the 9:00 and 10:00 PM hours. These were ideal nights, because the weather was perfect, and no one had gone back to school or college yet. In years past, one would find a large crowd hanging out, the night air filled with music and many conversations.
This year?
Nothing. Dead. One night there was literally no one on the plaza. The next night was captured here on film. Such a sad scene was inconceivable just a few years ago. Of course, downtown Bethesda is not the place it was a few years ago.
This decade got off to a bad start with the Montgomery County Council's disastrous Nighttime Economy Initiative, spearheaded by Councilmember Hans Riemer after his election in 2010. At the time, Bethesda actually had nightlife, with mobs of people outside of popular bars and nightclubs on both sides of downtown. In fact, Bethesda nightlife was even booming back in the 1980s and 1990s, with venues like Twist and Shout, the Yacht Club of Bethesda, and the Shark Club.
We should have been taking the next step by attracting upscale, Las Vegas-style nightclubs to downtown Bethesda, adding standard civic events like Mardi Gras & St. Patrick's Day parades or an Oktoberfest to Bethesda's staid and outdated holiday calendar, and finally ending the archaic Montgomery County government monopoly on liquor sales that restricts economic growth and revenue.
But that's not what Riemer and his vaunted Nighttime Economy Task Force did. Instead of "making us hip," as Riemer promised his cheerleaders in the local media, it ended up tanking the nighttime economy. By the time the smoke had cleared, a record 17 nightspots had closed, the food truck industry in Montgomery County had been completely wiped out, and Riemer and the Council had actually strengthened the County liquor monopoly to preserve it.
Now the streets of downtown Bethesda are dark and deserted after 9 or 10 at night, even in summer. Gone are the crowds on sidewalks where bars used to be, with those spaces still vacant or filled with less vibrant uses.
Bar and club owners had taken it on the chin again. Now it was the regular restaurants' turn.
Despite warnings from myself in 2014, the Montgomery County Council and Planning Board allowed the Regal Cinemas Bethesda 10 to be evicted from 7272 Wisconsin Avenue and demolished, without requiring the developer to provide a replacement cineplex. That reduced the number of people coming to downtown Bethesda by up to 20,000 per weekend, according to a study of the impact of cineplexes on urban centers.
Not only did the loss of foot traffic lead to many restaurant closures, but there was a decline simply in the number of people present on sidewalks and the plaza.
The Council wasn't done yet.
In 2017, they passed a $15 minimum wage bill. During public testimony, the Council was warned by the Restaurant Association of Maryland that the dining sector in Montgomery was already flat by this point, compared to surging growth in adjacent Frederick County, the District and Northern Virginia. A representative of the Maryland Retailers Association noted that Montgomery County had already suffered a net loss of over 2100 retail jobs since the turn of the century. $15 an hour? "That's a lot of extra Slurpees to sell," a convenience store owner mused bitterly.
The two public garages at Bethesda Row began to have more vacant parking spaces, including the one that regularly would say "FULL" at peak dinner time in even the recent past.
But the plaza outside of Barnes & Noble was the last to go. The quasi-public gathering space was fueled by the bookstore, where local celebrities like David Brooks, John King, and Wolf Blitzer would seek out intellectual tomes. Or one could simply browse, socialize, get a coffee at the Starbucks upstairs, study or charge your phone if the power in your apartment went out.
Barnes & Noble reportedly wanted a lower rent to renew. We can't know exactly what was said in those negotiations, but what is known for sure is that Barnes & Noble closed in January 2018, to be replaced by Anthropologie & Co.
This was literally the last straw. The public garages in the summers of 2018 and 2019 regularly showed hundreds of vacant parking spaces available at peak dinner times. It became so embarrassing that the numeric digital readout of spaces available was finally disabled at the garage entrance by Nando's Peri-Peri.
Everyone waited to see what would happen on the Bethesda Row plaza over the first summer with Anthropologie. The answer that quickly became clear in June was - nothing. A few stragglers sitting even at peak dinner hours. A few returning buskers playing to few ears. One enterprising new musical duo tried to relocate the action to Amazon Books down the street last summer, when the store had just opened. That lasted exactly one night. There's hardly anyone in Amazon Books at night, and the store appears to be a vanity project for Jeff Bezos at this point.
The collapse of the nighttime economy, the loss of 20000 people per weekend with the theater closure, and the departure of community favorite Barnes & Noble was a collective weight that already-teetering businesses could not support. Major anchor restaurants closed around Bethesda Row, including American Tap Room, Redwood, and Lebanese Taverna, all of which had lasted many years.
Regular readers of this news site are well-informed about the cratering of nightlife, and, of course, residents are living through it. But our elected officials, who know little about how business works (as proven by Montgomery County having the worst economic development numbers in the region), still can't admit anything is wrong or that they have failed.
Just as my years and years of warnings about our moribund economy eventually were picked up on by the Washington Post, near-victorious County Executive candidate David Blair, and even former Riemer chief-of-staff Adam Pagnucco, the nightlife problem (which is actually countywide) may also be reaching a point so low it can't be ignored any longer.
When Tapp'd Bethesda closed recently, one of its owners told reporter Charlie Wright of Bethesda Magazine that the collapse of nightlife in Bethesda was the culprit. "Co-owner Johnny Natoli said the declining downtown Bethesda scene led to the downfall of Tapp’d," Wright wrote. "Natoli likened the area to the Ocean City boardwalk when Union Jack’s opened in 2005, but added that it’s fallen off drastically since then. 'There’s no action down there, there’s nothing going on...I see a lot of for lease signs down there,'” Natoli noted.
Recent development appears to have hurt, rather than helped, the plaza at Bethesda Row. Over 10 years later, Montgomery County never delivered on politicians' promises of a new public space outside Mon Ami Gabi and the Landmark Bethesda Row Cinema (which does not show mainstream blockbusters, for any who are unaware). A low-slung building at 4749 Bethesda Avenue that seemed ideal for restaurant and bar uses, complete with a rooftop deck for dining or club programming, ended up being leased to a bank that ensures it will be dark in the evening.
Speaking of dark, the Lot 31 buildings across the street never did get the illuminated rooflines that would make them attractive at night. Silver is hidden from the plaza up Woodmont Avenue, and while PassionFish seems to be a success, the intersection designed to frustrate drivers ended up creating a veritable ocean of concrete between the plaza and whatever patio activity takes place at the seafood restaurant. New urbanist design would have made a tight, 4-way cross intersection to bring the various developments together.
There is now less light and energy than ever. Lot 31 had more lights than the developments that replaced it. Today, large black hulks loom over the plaza from Lot 31, 4747 Bethesda Avenue, and 7272 Wisconsin Avenue at night. Will 4747 Bethesda get a great restaurant tenant on the ground floor (and will it be visible from the plaza?)? Will 7272 Wisconsin deliver a nicely-illuminated roofline and promised Italian villa staircase behind the Landmark theater? What can be done to revitalize the plaza at Bethesda Row?
The District and Northern Virginia are destroying us in nightlife, as they are in economic development. Montgomery County hasn't attracted a major corporate headquarters in over 20 years. Shockingly, the current Council hasn't moved on either crisis - nor on our traffic congestion and debt crises - since taking office last December.
I ran for the County Council on those issues - and real solutions - last year. The media never reported on my campaign. Most voters didn't seem to bother to research the candidates before voting. And shockingly-anomalous voting results at dozens of precincts suggest their votes might not have counted if they did.
You won't hear Kojo Nnmadi inviting me on his radio show to talk about these issues. Only good news about our elected officials can be heard there. Looking at the non-existent economic numbers and dark streets at night, there isn't much good news to tell these days.
This is a crisis. And a conversation that must be had sooner, rather than later.
"The next night was captured here on film."
ReplyDeleteNo it wasn't.
Las Vegas style? I never figured you for an advocate of legalized prostitution and gambling.
ReplyDelete"no one had gone back to school or college yet."
ReplyDeleteOnce again, you're wrong.
6:54am does Kojo bring on people that may have a different opinion? Never listened.
ReplyDelete6:53: LOL - what school system starts in July, Einstein?
ReplyDelete6:50: You've obviously never been to Las Vegas.
6:49: Maybe you need a new monitor or cell phone.
"Maybe you need a new monitor or cell phone."
ReplyDeleteNeither my monitor nor my cellphone uses film.
7:05: Sounds like you really need to upgrade them, then.
ReplyDelete"no one had gone back to school or college yet."
ReplyDeleteI guess you didn't consider the even more obvious possibility - that families are vacationing out of town, in OC, Bethany, Bar Harbor or Yosemite.
7:08: And they weren't all the other years in the past, when the plaza was crowded on summer nights? LOL
ReplyDeleteMe: [ snort}
ReplyDeleteHubs: Are you annoying someone online?
Me: Maybe
Hubs: We’re on VACATION
Me: THIS IS HOW I RECREATE
I was out in Bethesda on Friday and tommy joes was actually packed. Brickside was pretty good too.
ReplyDeleteI would not go to any Vegas style nightclubs in DC. I wouldn't even in DC anymore. Does DC still even have big clubs like that anymore? There were a bunch on the waterfront before the wharf. But what’s available now in DC even?
To be clear I’m not saying Bethesda nightlife is jumping anymore, it’s just not the same in a lot of places for a lot of reasons. I think housing prices and much better options such as DC plays into it, as does the availability of Uber to go to other places. Nightclubs I think is definitely not the answer for Bethesda, and would in my humble opinion fail miserably once Bethesda.
DeleteThings are different since when you were young, Robert.
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, what's really popular with the kinds I know are...strip clubs....but I'm not clamoring for any in Bethesda.
ReplyDelete**kids** kids I know.
ReplyDelete7:15AM The cease & desist order.
ReplyDeleteYour article was simply a rehash of all of your negative comments, now in a nice single place for easy reference. Thanks for compiling for thoughts!
ReplyDeleteYou have list a number of negative changes in the city, but allow me to remind you and your readers of the positives. It’s newsworthy that, as reported today on the Washington Business Journal in their Crane Watch, there are over $1.5 billion dollars of construction in downtown Bethesda. Probably about $2 billion dollars in fully approved projects that are about to start up, and many, many more in the pipeline. For reference, that’s about the same size as both phases of the $2.5 billion dollar DC Wharf.
That’s an incredible amount of new development. A new grocery store, expanded high school, huge hospital expansion, renovated Round House Theater, two high-rise hotels with 500 more rooms and a third being renovated, a new Metro entrance and light rail station, about 9500 new office workers and about 9000 new residents moving into new high-rise multi-family buildings all around the city. That adds up to about 20,000 more people in the downtown area.
At least seven new urban plazas and maybe an expanded Elm Street Park at the Bethesda Market. About 36 new high-rise projects underway, or in the pipeline, including perhaps a landmark tower at the center of the city at the Metro Center. Very soon thousands more folks will arrive and depart downtown using the Purple Line and the extended CCT. An 8 minute ride on the Purple Line from Silver Spring will bring hundreds of folks to the downtown every evening, and make it easy for Bethesdians to enjoy restaurants in Chevy Chase Lake and Silver Spring. The Purple Line will make it much easier for local students to attend classes at UMD and still live at home. Thousands of new underground and above ground parking spaces are being built to add to the massively expanding transit options, maybe including BRT or perhaps even a monorail to Fredrick.
Yes, you have listed how Bethesda has changed over the years. Everything changes. But you can not deny that downtown Bethesda is under a massive expansion and regeneration into a much larger and dense place. Different, no doubt, but I would argue it will be better in most ways. All this new density will hopefully attract some of the elements you have listed as being lost. Certainly not a 36,000 SF bookstore, and maybe not even a second multiplex cinema, but dozens of new restaurants, cafes, shops, and plazas will be created to serve our existing and 20,000 new residents, hotel guests and office workers.
7:17: But you wouldn't pay to take Uber if there were options in downtown Bethesda, right? So Uber itself isn't the problem.
ReplyDeleteBethesda was always one of the most expensive places to live back when it had more nightlife, so that isn't it, either.
7:17 here. But I live in Bethesda. When I lived in Rockville and NoVa I would not cab to Bethesda or DC either - it was too expensive. Now that Uber is an option I would Uber to both, but DC is so much more viable now I would happily live in DC if I were younger. When I was younger no way. And now Bethesda is too expensive to live in anyway. So DC is a better choice.
Delete7:19: And yet, revenue is declining, and the County budget is in the red every single year. So how are all these cranes helping us, again?
ReplyDeleteAlright, let's try an have a rational discussion.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I will agree that the replacement of B&N with Anthropologie and the closure of ATP hit foot traffic hard. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt for your claim that Hans Riemer's Nighttime Economy Initiative failed (although "nightspot" can be defined in a million different ways and you only identify closures not openings).
So what exactly would you do differently?
Note-Requiring a cinema to be included in the redeveloped Apex building is a non-starter for many, many reasons as many, many people have told you, despite your stubborn denial. Also, your theories about the minimum wage bill and liquor monopoly fall flat because they aren't reflected in the throngs of people at other mixed-use centers like Pike & Rose, Crown, and Rio.
"Las Vegas-style nightclubs to downtown Bethesda"
Lol should we bring Las Vegas-style hookers too? LV is the last city Bethesda should be trying to emulate.
Unless you're talking about Clarendon, "Northern Virginia" isn't destroying anyone in "nightlife". Have you been to Tysons or Rosslyn after dark?
Think of it like a football team...these are the rebuilding years. You might find a stand-out or two, but it will be a while before the whole thing gels.
ReplyDelete7:23: Yes, I have, and Tysons has much more nightlife after dark than Montgomery County.
ReplyDeleteAgain, you must not have been to Vegas - not every club is a strip club there.
The Council had total legal authority to demand a replacement cineplex in the 7272 Wisconsin Minor Master Plan Amendment. They just didn't do it!
Heckuva job, Brownie!
You don't think the bars and restaurants at those other developments hate the liquor monopoly? LOL - what are you smoking? Liquor and minimum wage were certainly two major financial pressures on top of the others specific to Bethesda.
7:26: What is "gelling?" All the new banks?
ReplyDelete7:19 AM I'm hoping the new residents populating all of the highrises will help support businesses, but Bainbridge, 7770 Norfolk, Gallery I&II and Cheval don't seem have helped in the Woodmont Triangle given all of the empty retail spaces!
ReplyDelete"So how are all these cranes helping us, again?"
ReplyDeleteIt's simple math. If you tear down a tiny old building and build a much bigger new one, you collect a LOT more in property taxes. Most of the new developments are paying into a park fund, which is something Bethesda has desperately needed for a long time.
Just because they demanded it wouldn't make it "viable."
ReplyDeleteSure it'll fit, but no guarantee it won't be a money loser.
Look at how Regal had to go to monthly passes, just to ensure steady income.
Which is worse - BTB living in the bubble known as Bethesda or BTB hanging on the roof of Don Tito's in Clarendon?
ReplyDelete7:30AM Why don't you actually read my comment before jumping to discredit it?
ReplyDeleteI had a friend visiting who used to live here 30 years ago. Asked what she thinks of what they're doing in Bethesda, she said "F that. I'll come back when it's done, right now it's a cluster to be avoided."
It will take some time to regain it's verve.
7:29
ReplyDeleteBecause as inept as the council is, that would be beyond stupid. 7272 Wisconsin would still be a crater in the ground while Carr would be shopping for theater tenants for who knows what imaginary space in a building with asking rents twice what the Apex building was.
It's not just about strip clubs. Those clubs thrive because Las Vegas is one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world where celebrities and high-rollers frequent and virtually everything is legal. That's not Bethesda, and it shouldn't be Bethesda. You're not going to see extravagant "Las Vegas-style clubs" in Bethesda or anywhere in the DC area for that matter.
What specific club in LV have you been to that you realistically think could be replicated in Bethesda? Something like a themed, upscale lounge with a strict dress code and bottle service could maybe work in Bethesda.
So how are all these cranes helping us again...
ReplyDeleteYou don’t think 20,000 additional residents, hotel guests and office workers will have a positive effect on new and existing restaurants, cafes, and retailers? You don’t think that 9500 people using the Bethesda Purple Line Station (predicted by 2035) will help patronize all these businesses? You don’t think many more folks will bike to Bethesda on the enhanced CCT, the most heavily used hike-biker train in America, with a new 250 space bike station under the Elm? You don’t think at least seven new urban plazas, and a doubled park area around the Women’s Farm Market re-imagined as a food hall, will attract hundreds of folks to downtown?
"Tysons has much more nightlife after dark"
ReplyDeleteLol! List three places in Tysons open after midnight on a Saturday night.
7:47
ReplyDeleteYou're making too much sense. Your comment might disappear.
7:48 AM
ReplyDeleteJust 3? Sure:
Tysons Biergarten
Patsy's American
Earls Kitchen + Bar
I'm guessing 7:48AM hasn't been to Tysons in awhile! The mall is totally redone, but there's much more than the mall. And more is under construction, including a new luxury multi-plex theater at the Boro.
7:31: So let's check that simple math - we've had massive development countywide over the last two decades. Clarksburg grew 800% in population and counting, Damascus tripled, Pike & Rose, Fallsgrove, King Farm, Bethesda Row, RTS, Crown, and tons of new buildings in Bethesda, Rockville, Silver Spring and White Flint.
ReplyDeleteThe result?
The County government is spending more in services to support these new developments than they are getting in revenue from them. We are in the red every year.
It has been definitively shown that the cost of residential development exceeds the revenue it generates. Period.
Parks? Not a single major park has been announced, much less built, in downtown Bethesda yet.
7:54
ReplyDeleteTysons Biergarten? Lol, should have said three good places, but I guess if you've never been to a real beer garden you would love that place. And congrats, I'm pretty sure you've named the only three places in Tyson open after midnight lol.
7:47: Not if they all have to leave Montgomery County for nightlife. None of the new plazas built so far have attracted anything. I thought the revised plan for the Farm Women's Market deleted the new building that would have been a food hall, and still did not provide the size of park promised by the Council when they passed the plan.
ReplyDelete7:45: Regal absolutely wants to come back, and mandating a theater would have meant the developer would have had more incentive to compromise on rent. Any strong theater chain would kill to enter the downtown Bethesda market right now. The problem is, they need a willing developer with a project large enough who will take the financial hit to include a theater. It's just not likely to happen on its own. There's way more rent money to be made from smaller retail or more residential space to lease compared to a cineplex.
It's like office space - profitable, but not as profitable as residential.
7:43: What specifically is in the pipeline to restore its "verve?" Banks? More art festivals? Higher parking rates?
We're on a roll, folks! So much winning!
7:58
ReplyDeleteYour comment would make a little sense if there wasn't more office space under construction than residential construction in Bethesda right now, and even then, unlike Damascus, King Farm, Crown and the other places you mentioned, the revenue generated by the dense high-rise units in Bethesda generate a lot more in revenue than they cost the county.
The huge expansion of Elm Street park? The park that the county is buying behind the Purple Line station? The park that the county is negotiating to build where Union Hardware is?
I thought this topic was nightlife in downtown Bethesda?
ReplyDeleteOf course all these new buildings and associated residents, hotel guests, office workers and those riding enhanced transit and new bike options will have a very positive impact on retail, cafes and restaurants in downtown. Of course some older places that can’t compete will close, and be rebuilt as the density increases. Many of those nasty one story buildings in the Woodmont Triangle need to go. Yes we will
Loose a bit of the charm and eccentricity, but hopefully, new and improved places will be added.
"The problem is, they need a willing developer with a project large enough who will take the financial hit to include a theater. It's just not likely to happen on its own. There's way more rent money to be made from smaller retail or more residential space to lease compared to a cineplex."
ReplyDeleteSounds like free-market capitalism to me.
I’m so surprised Dyer would oppose free market capitalism.
Delete8:11 AM hopefully historically designate and preserve one example of classic Woodmont Triangle architecture- the long 1 story retail building with the driveway
ReplyDeletetl;dr
ReplyDeleteI watched the sunset and twilight last night, and it was beautiful. None of those pictures were taken at 9 PM.
ReplyDeleteBut judging nightlife by activity at 10 PM on a Sunday night? Seriously?
You lament that the rich are leaving, but it seems they are leaving their money behind, in lots of new banks. Sure these are not as cool as a great new restaurant or cafe with outdoor seating, but much better than a vacant retail space. You call them dark at night, I would argue the new Chase Bank in the 4747 Bethesda building adds quite a bit of light in the area at night. It makes it feel much safer than a dark storefront, especially when the window displays are not illuminated at night. Keep in mind that these bank tenants are easily converted to retail and restaurants in the future. Not so easy with a one story branch bank and drive through.
ReplyDeleteDyer, why do you wait for business to wait for government to tell them what to do?
ReplyDeleteIf you believe that what Bethesda really needs is a "Las Vegas-style nightclub", why don't you round up some other devil investors, and start one?
If you believe that the DLC (which magically had zero effect on Bethesda nightlife from when it was established ihn 1951 until Hans Riemer joined the County Council in 2011), needs to be abolished, why don't you take the initiative like Robin Ficker did, and petition for a referendum, like Ficker did with property tax increases and term limits? He did that, in spite of repeatedly being rejected as a candidate.
8:05 AM
ReplyDeleteLOL
There's more than three.
Barrel & Bushel, Silver Diner, etc.
It would be nice if a place opened up that gave out free ice cream as well. I bet that would be more profitable that a 20 screen Regal cinema inserted in to the base of a new large mixed use project in downtown Bethesda. Real estate and construction cost are just too high to make this happen.
ReplyDeleteDesirable? Of course! Profitable? Me thinks not.
8:29 AM Same thing I say about a highrise featuring a new "black box" theater at the old Union Hardware site :)
ReplyDelete8:19: The pictures were taken between 9 and 10 PM, and NOT on a Sunday night - though there's no reason Sunday night shouldn't have a good turnout in summer, too.
ReplyDelete8:24: LOL - you never seem to get the point. When, exactly, were business owners thrilled with the government liquor monopoly? It's just that as the Council reduces the profit margin more and more, the extra monthly costs of buying through the monopoly take more and more of a bite out of profits.
So it makes it more and more urgent to end the monopoly. Riemer joined the Council in December 2010, not 2011.
8:23: The rich are indeed leaving. They're not leaving their money, though - I've published the stats on how much they've taken with them to each jurisdiction around us.
8:11: So much fake news. No significant expansion of Elm Street Park is proposed. The Purple Line "park" will be a staging area for several years, then will be used to extend the Purple Line to Westbard and Sumner (this is the same reason MoCo is buying property for a "park" at the future River Road light rail station site). The County can negotiate all it wants, but it hasn't delivered squat in downtown Bethesda so far.
8:17: Capitalism doesn't help if the market collapses, as is happening now in Bethesda. Repeat after me: Minor master plan process. Minor master plan process. It allows government to demand things in exchange for allowing the developer to do something it currently can't under the original zoning.
8:29: You support the Council in all of its socialist policies - EXCEPT you don't want socialist policies applied to developers. It's not hard to figure out you work for developers.
ReplyDeleteA cineplex is essential to the downtown economy. Government should step in to ensure we have one.
I agree a cineplex is essential. I don’t agree the government should have the power to mandate a business owner put in a cineplex. Incentivize is a different story though.
Delete"Riemer joined the Council in December 2010, not 2011."
ReplyDeleteSo what happened in December 2010 that wiped out all nightlife in Bethesda forever?
Robert Dyer, you are a Republican, right?
ReplyDeleteThe definitive "moribundity" post!
ReplyDeleteMaybe from now on, just refer to it by name and/or date, or some other handy abbreviation, instead of rehashing the individual components?
8:46: Wrong again - the exact situation at 7272 Wisconsin was a Minor Master Plan Amendment. It was allowing a developer to do something they COULD NOT DO under the zoning at that time. In exchange for the profitable exception, you mandate the replacement theater.
ReplyDeleteThis was NOT just putting a mandate on a property owner - it was a non-compliant project seeking an exception. Don't want to build a theater? Fine. You don't get a special zoning exception.
The Council couldn't stand up to their sugar daddies, and gave away the store for nothing. We even have to pick up the tab for the CCT tunnel under 355 now, too. It would be nice to have a Council that actually represents OUR interests, not their developer sugar daddies.
Any westward expansion of the Purple Line (which by the way is a good thing) would only add two or four recessed rails on the pavement and overhead power cables in the Capital Crescent Civic Green. Unlike heavy rail, light rail trains often pass through public plazas and across streets at grade. The Purple Line is going right through a large pedestrian area at UMD. Unless a train is passing, folks can stroll or drive across the tracks. Just like you would avoid a bus passing by at a street crosswalk. Some even utilize green tracks with turf between the rails.
ReplyDeleteIf the Purple Line Phase Two went to Westbard and Sumner, even more folks would have enhanced access to and from downtown Bethesda.
Yes, the CCT west of downtown would be impacted, but the plans for the new CCT east of downtown look like they can happily, and safely coexist in the former railroad right of way.
You complain that Bethesda is dying, but seem to reject any acknowledgement of improvements proposed and underway.
Problem is we were sold the idea that there was a task force specifically tackling nightlife. Bethesda hasn't seen tangible benefits yet of that task force.
ReplyDelete"This was NOT just putting a mandate on a property owner - it was a non-compliant project seeking an exception. Don't want to build a theater? Fine. You don't get a special zoning exception."
ReplyDeleteHow the hell is that not a mandate?
"Problem is we were sold the idea that there was a task force specifically tackling nightlife. "
ReplyDeleteWhat does this mean?
"Even when people vote for me, somebody changes their vote in the computer later, so let's be fair, old sport."
ReplyDelete9:38 AM The decline of Bethesda nightlife is no "conspiracy theory".
ReplyDeleteThere is wide agreement that it has.
Question is why and what do we do going forward.
Saith Dyer: "We even have to pick up the tab for the CCT tunnel under 355 now, too."
ReplyDeleteWhy should the developer of the Wilson Building pay for that? That is relates to construction of the Purple Line, not the Wilson Building.
You lost me at "Las Vegas-style nightlife."
ReplyDeleteAlso, you should look into the effect that dating/hookup apps like Tinder and Bumble have had on the bar/club scene. It's not pretty.
9:50AM - What kind of place do you want opening that will have you spending your evenings/nights in Bethesda?
ReplyDeleteDyer-8:06
ReplyDelete"It's like office space - profitable, but not as profitable as residential."
Is this a serious statement? You have it totally backwards man
Firstenberg with his award winning presentation for lot 31 years ago, promised a corrected traditional intersection. Like he does everywhere, he gets the county deal and benefits and then escapes the promises made.
ReplyDelete2:43 PM Indeed, we're all enjoying Dyer's analysis and the community's input right here.
ReplyDeleteNo need to rewrite it for another blog. It may be a good topic for Kojo however.
"Firstenberg...promised a corrected traditional intersection."
ReplyDeleteWhat does this mean?
Amazing how a 1,500-word essay about the closure of Barnes & Noble does not mention the landlord - Federal Realty - even once.
ReplyDeleteRobert, i am a fan and follow your Bethesda posts but posting a pic from a Sunday evening around 11pm is fake news, please stop spreading this on your social media accounts , if you want to take this discussion further please respond to my message
ReplyDeleteFYI 3 counties in VA went back to school today
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised Kojo dissed you. He seems almost even handed occasionally. I've lost some respect for him after reading this. The barrier to entry for good people to get exposure in order to be elected is one fault of our system.
ReplyDelete6:02: Not only were these pictures not taken at 11 PM, nor on a Sunday night, but I surveyed the plaza multiple evenings after 9 and 10 PM, and the people count was the same or worse - as low as zero. I stated all of this upfront at the beginning of the article.
ReplyDeleteThese were all summer nights at the end of July and beginning of August, not this past weekend, for all those claiming school is back in session.
ReplyDeleteDyer's right -- that plaza is pretty dead any night of the week. The reason is there's nothing to draw people nearby. The only bars were Parkers, Nest and to some extent Ri-Ra, and all are long gone. All the restaurants there start closing up at 9pm-ish.
ReplyDeleteAs for Kojo, I think his show isn't that great, and Dyer already has a great venue to get the word out -- his blog right here.
Bring back Flaps Up
ReplyDeleteLike it or not - Robert Dyer is speaking truth.
ReplyDeleteTo me it's sad.
To the "get off my lawn" grouches in this area it's just fine
Robert is correct. Bethesda has lost its youth; all those apartments they have built/are building are for upper-middle class, middle-aged people who don't go out except for an occasional dinner. There's no buzz, no busking, no fun. Those ironic "B"'s all over town celebrating an imaginary arts scene merely stand for "Boring".
ReplyDelete6:27am new leadership is needed in Bethesda. That includes BethesdaUP. They do a great job maintaining the downtown and guiding people in person, but signage is out of date and the events haven't changed in a generation.
DeleteNew ideas desperately needed to live up to those red Bs all over town.
Seems like we have the same challenges as before the Nightlife Economy Task Force. In fact, things are worse and that's with more residents moving into all of the new buildings around town.
ReplyDeleteThe Task Force failed.
Hey 8:32- a reinvented Flaps Up could work here
ReplyDeleteTo the person who asked about Doug Firstenberg: Here's an interview with him where he says:" We are going to have this really interesting, walkable, mixed-use, live/work/play community that people write and talk about a lot. "
ReplyDeleteWalkable, hahahaha.
Read more at: https://www.bisnow.com/washington-dc/news/neighborhood/developer-qa-stonebridgecarras-principal-doug-firstenberg-71633?utm_source=CopyShare&utm_medium=Browser
Atleast they brought a much needed community ammenity to their project with Harris Teeter.
DeleteAn interesting article in the Washington Business Journal indicated that Inc.5000’s ranking of the fastest growing companies in America showed that 14 of them are in MoCo, 1 is in Prince George’s, 4 are in DC and an impressive 33 are in NoVa. 10 of the companies in MoCo made the list for the first time. Yes Robert, they are not Fortune 500 companies (yet), but still impressive.
ReplyDeleteHomesnap in Bethesda was 38th on the list of the 500 fastest growing companies in America on the Inc. 5000 ranking. They had a growth rate of 6177%.
https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2019/08/14/maryland-boosts-presence-on-inc-5000-while-one-n.html?ana=e_me_set1&j=89802611&t=Morning&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpNd05ESmpNV1prWlRrMCIsInQiOiJhbnJxeGtuWk5cL3MzODlXTDR4YlVpUTV5U0p3NlZPcDFzcjJTdVwvUnMyRjFDZXhXK0dYQ0dGTDJXa24wNUdTV1Y3VlI2M01PUytXS3FWd0QzMUprdWpuNDBwQ2ZkU3prQkJpY2l4cUdqaUtoTTNDemZISVVBb1NlMFhXekR0WWd3In0%3D
6:46: First of all, the real story is by how much Northern Virginia crushed us in that ranking 33 to 14, just as they absolutely destroy us in number of Fortune 500s, business growth, new business net starts, etc.
ReplyDeleteSecond, that article has nothing to do with nightlife, which is the topic here, and a separate crisis all its own in MoCo.
Third, I would have to look into the criteria for Inc.'s rankings, because even finishing well behind NoVa, it's hard to believe MoCo could even have 14 on the list with the BLS numbers showing business growth so low here.
Fourth, growth doesn't always mean success, as it often reflects an overoptimistic company burning through their investment capital.
I clearly stated that NoVa had some great numbers, but 14 out of 500 of the fastest growing companies for MoCo in America is still a very good showing. Way better than DC. Some of these are small companies, but with enormous growth. Not all successes in this county need to make the Fortune 500 list.
ReplyDeleteAny company like Homesnap in Bethesda, with a growth rate of 6177% should be applauded.
You seem to have a problem with anyone who offers even a small counter argument to your moribund dialogue. It’s not all gloom and doom as you seem to profess. Yes, it could be much better, but articles like this, in a nationally recognized business publication, suggest there are at least a few growing companies and start-ups in MoCo.
Saith Dyer:" First of all, the real story is by how much Northern Virginia crushed us in that ranking 33 to 14"
ReplyDeleteOnce again, Dyer shows that he is absolutely incapable of doing valid statistical comparisons. The population of "Northern Virginia", including Fredericksburg, is more than twice that of Montgomery County.
ReplyDeletei agree with robert. bethesda has gone down considerably in the past decade and there's no sign of improvement. friendship heights is probably worse.
You guys must be joking. Downtown Bethesda is currently experiencing one of it’s largest growth spurts in its history. 9000 new multifamily housing units, 9500 new office jobs, 500 new hotel rooms, 7 new urban parks, a new Metro entrance, a new light rail station, huge elementary and high school expansions, a huge hospital expansion, a refurbished Roundhouse Theater, a refurbished library.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to older brick and precast office towers that are from 4 to 19 stories, we will soon have four new sleek and sustainable office towers at 15, 22, 22 and 23 stories. A new 10 story bio-medical office tower. Dozens of new high rise multifamily residential towers from 7 to 30 stories. Maybe a new Bethesda Market project to revitalize the Farm Women’s Market and a huge new park over 300 more county parking spaces below grade. Almost all over these new buildings will have retail shops, cafes and restaurants with outdoor dining.
Yes, the damn bookstore closed, and we have fewer bars, and one less movie theater, and yes an older population now lives in and near downtown. Yes the restaurants and retail are different, but we have 200 restaurants and 500 retail shops and businesses in a very compact and walkable area. But Some of you seem to be blind to the massive amount of new development, bike paths, urban plazas and enhanced transit options that are underway. Bethesda has been called the Shining Star of Montgomery County, with the lions share of new development.
8:34: You have no mainstream cineplex, 17 less nightspots, and a nighttime economy that has totally cratered.
ReplyDeleteNone of the things you listed - and much of that is speculative, such as the job numbers, or misleading, as in the actual size of those "parks" - will restore that nighttime economy.
Massive residential development has proven to be a financial bust for Montgomery County, generating more new costs in public services than in revenue.
4:03: First of all, the claim of how many of those businesses were in MoCo is laughably suspicious to begin with. I have no idea what criteria they used, but it simply doesn't fit the BLS numbers for business growth. The County government has produced a fake jobs report that was totally exposed as a fraud by Bill Turque in the Washington Post. Not surprisingly, he is no longer at the Post and replaced by cartel-praising hacks. #JenniferBarrios
Second of all, Fredericksburg is not and never has been part of Northern Virginia. Good God.
12:01: How is a growth rate of 6077% being measured? How would a jurisdiction that had net new business starts of almost 3000 more than MoCo this decade have such a supposedly poor showing in this one particular article? We've seen this kind of fake news before, and it was exposed as such. Riemer and others once cited an insane, fake figure that MoCo had beaten NoVa in job growth since the recession, and we know from dozens of official federal data that that claim was total malarkey. NoVa beats us every month this century, and it's not even close.
Fairfax, and often Loudoun, each beat us every month, too, it must be noted.
ReplyDeleteI guess that Inc. must be in on the MoCo cartel, and published fake information on the fastest growing companies in America. The article clearly stated that NoVa had a larger number, but you question the veracity of their claim that 14 MoCo companies made their list?
ReplyDeleteWhen will you realize how paranoid you sound when you deny things like this? Yes, NoVa beat us, again, but certainly 14 companies in MoCo are much better that only 1 company in DC, and many other places in America.
Yes, many of these urban plazas are compact, but I suggest they all add will to the vibrancy of the city. I would rather see an busy compact plaza space that a wide open, but vacant green space.
The Elm/Wilson plaza will be very busy with all the transit users, and three new retail spaces. The Marriott plaza will be heavily used by Marriott employees heading to and from the Metro and hotel/hotel restaurant patrons. The Avocet plaza will also be adjacent to the AC Hotel lobby and restaurant, and include a large waterfall, interactive light sculpture under and three story high covered roof overhang. The Metro Tower plaza is already there, but will double in size, with a large central water feature, and will be flanked by three or four potential restaurants. The 7900 Building plaza will be an active mid-block passage with an artful, selfie inspiring, reflective metal ceiling, sloped lawn panels and access to the Trader Joe’s, two small retail shops and Orange Fitness. The refurbished plaza at 7200 Wisconsin will be more open, and includes terraced amphitheater seating, and an adjacent separated bike lane with a signalized bike lane and pedestrian crossing across Wisconsin. Don’t even get me started on the potential improvements of an expanded Elm Street Park around the FWM. All of these are privately owned public spaces, but certainly add to the usable open space in downtown.
Best of all, the Capital Crescent Civic Green, the only true county park on my list, is currently proposed to be a lively place with sloping lawn panels, seating, shade trees, a splash pad, and a large sculpture. It will be flanked by an ice cream shop, a movie theater and multiple restaurants, and will serve as the primary gateway to the new transit options from Bethesda Row.
All of these plazas have the potential to be lively urban spaces that enhance both daytime and nighttime activity. All of these spaces have attractive features that will draw folks in. The multiple plazas will offer a variety of active amenities, and not just lightly-used open green space.
Here is a link to the Inc. 5000 list. Lots of ways to sort and rank the data.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.inc.com/inc5000/2019/top-private-companies-2019-inc5000.html?metro=washington-dc