Villain & Saint has closed at 7141 Wisconsin Avenue in downtown Bethesda. The live music venue was part of restaurateur Robert Wiedmaier's empire of businesses in the D.C. area. This is the 19th nightspot to close in downtown Bethesda since the Montgomery County Council's disastrous "nighttime economy task force" debacle.
Sorry to see them go.
ReplyDelete"disastrous "nighttime economy task force" debacle"
ReplyDelete....or maybe its closing because its being redeveloped as part of the FWM. So tired of the fakenews narrative being pushed on this site
8:50am closing because no one was going. Nightlife in Bethesda continues to die.
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ReplyDeleteI live a block away, but somehow never got around to going there. From what I have heard, it was a fun place with the right band.
ReplyDeleteI suspect this might be more related to clearing the site for the proposed Bethesda Market Project, that recently received a favorable review from Design Advisory Panel, and will be seeking Sketch Plan approval later this month. The new plans for the Farm Women's Market show a smaller one-story addition, instead of the larger detached two story pavilion,
.
The new plans also showed a smaller tower footprint and a much larger park with a larger open lawn area for events, and a small terraced amphitheater facing a stage. The proposed townhouses on the Parking Lot 10 have been removed, and that whole lot is now proposed as a park, including a permanent dog park, with fenced areas for both large and small dogs.
The new two level underground parking deck no longer extends under the FWM, and has a nice open stair and elevator for public access to the 300 public underground spaces. The area around the FWM is now less lawn area and more paved spaces, showing seating and event tents. A woonef is still shown adjacent to the expanded market.
Perhaps Villant and Saint can return and operate the outdoor music events at the new amphitheater, or maybe even in a new dedicated event space like Amp by Strathmore, in the base of the 17 story high mixed use multi family tower. A 22 story tower is still proposed for the west side of Wisconsin, and will require the removal of the Starbucks, Joseph Banks, Vace and Lances Beer and Wine. About 600 multi family units are propose, in addition to the expanded market and ground level retail.
8:57: We all saw the Facebook post, old sport.
ReplyDelete“Old sport”.
DeleteStill can’t say spectrum
8:50: If it was simply redevelopment, the owner would be relocating. He's not, and he has told Bethesda Magazine he would only consider reopening it in the District.
ReplyDeleteSo I had the factual narrative, as usual.
Bethesda is more of a Kennedy Center crowd, to say the least. Maybe in a few years all these new "luxury" apartments will come down in price so more young people can move in. Until then, maybe a Depends store can open up for all the wealthy retirees in town.
ReplyDelete10:14am agreed. A few quick thoughts:
Delete* the nightlife economy task force is now seen as a great failure. No tangible successes for downtown Bethesda. Bethesda's downtown was more popular at night before the task force convened.
* The Downtown Bethesda Plan is totally inadequate. No focus on arts, entertainment or nightlife. The one arts/entertainment recommendation was for a "black box theater"
* NIMBYs in the single family detached home neighborhoods around the downtown aren't helping matters.
8:50: You apparently didn't read the Bethesda Magazine article.
ReplyDelete"Owner Robert Wiedmaier said Wednesday morning that he closed the venue Monday because it had been losing money and not getting enough business."
So no...you are incorrect and it turns out you are the fake news.
10:14: That's the thing too, these luxury apartments popping up everywhere are ridiculous. I agree with the Depends store as that's about all they'll have to do/go to around town after all this is done.
@ 8:50 PM said:
ReplyDelete"Or maybe it's closing because it's being redeveloped as part of the FWM. So tired of the fakenews narrative being pushed on this site."
Dyer's Little Helper @ 10:30 AM said:
"You apparently didn't read the Bethesda Magazine article.
Owner Robert Wiedmaier said Wednesday morning that he closed the venue Monday because it had been losing money and not getting enough business.'
"So no...you are incorrect and it turns out you are the fake news."
Little Helper somehow missed this in that same article in Bethesda Magazine, just a few paragraphs down:
Wiedmaier said a related factor in his decision was the impending demolition of the building Villain & Saint was in due to plans to redevelop the Farm Women’s Market next door.
11:38: No, I read that too but there's a difference between being a related factor and the primary factor. He held out for 2 years he said before he closed due to losing money. The article clearly states that was the primary motivating factor here to it closing. Are you dense?
ReplyDelete"Are you dense?"
ReplyDeleteAre you Dyer?
11:53: No, I'm just a pissed off millennial that thinks Bethesda blows as a place to have friends visit as there's absolutely nothing to do here. It's seriously become one of the most boring, uninteresting, snooty, overpriced area that I've ever seen. For any and all entertainment, I'll spend my money in Silver Spring or DC. You wanna know the most exciting thing to happen after dark on a weekend in Bethesda? The fireworks some a$$holes lit off in the middle of a traffic light intersection on Bradley because there's absolutely nothing to do in this city.
ReplyDeleteI remember coming here back in 2008 and the place was alive and full of life well into the night. I thought it was the coolest place to hangout and always wanted to live in an area like it. Now that I finally do, I can't tell people enough why they shouldn't even bother with it anymore. It's a sad excuse for a "Live-work-play" endeavor and the county should be ashamed of themselves for what they've brought it to. Closing after closing after closing.
@ 12:01 PM - What were your favorite hangouts in 2008?
Delete12:01 PM Yup. Most people I know would rather meet up at Pike & Rose or Silver Spring over downtown Bethesda :/
ReplyDelete12:01: Exactly. Anywhere but Bethesda.
ReplyDeleteTo the people that keep saying how wrong Dyer is about the death of the nightlife in Bethesda, I'm telling you all that you are NOT the intended audience and that's why you feel the way you do. For young people who have lots of friends and want to get together for a night out on a weekend, Bethesda is a terrible choice for us to spend our money. I tell everyone not to come here because they'll be bored to tears with the options (or lack thereof). My friends from out of town that have come here have said the same thing about it. It's a sleepy old person's town that resembles a retirement community.
Bethesda has become the Boca Raton of Maryland. What a shame. Someone inject life into this town.
ReplyDeleteBethesda has become the Boca Raton of Maryland. What a shame. Someone inject life into this town.
ReplyDelete1:07: Here you go. Median Age Info:
ReplyDelete2009-41.6
2010-41.5
2011-42.6
2012-42.7
2013-42.9
2014-43.2
2015-43.2
2016-43.4
2017-43.4
Source: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk
If you're saying that the changing of age demographics is what caused the changing of restaurants and nightspots, I find it quite hard to believe that a median age change of +1.8 years between 2009 and 2017 caused this much damage to the nightlife in Bethesda.
I find it amazing that a reader posting at 9:06 AM had so much new info on the area around the Farm Women’s Market. It seems that that project is substantially changing. Bigger parks, smaller buildings, fewer apartments and a much smaller addition to the old building. I thought Robert was more on top of this stuff.
ReplyDelete1:31 PM? Thanks for the info. I wonder if an aging population, combined with more school age children,
ReplyDeletemight explain the possibility of fewer millennials that might frequent nightclubs. The cost to live near downtown Bethesda certainly is driving millennials to rent and buy elsewhere. Yes, that average is only 1.8 years higher, but with more school aged children in the mix, perhaps the average is skewed a bit.
I had a long conversation with a cab driver who said people don't even go out in Georgetown anymore. How much of this is a change in what people are interested in doing in the evening vs. some kind of grand conspiracy? Federal Realty has made a commitment to Pike & Rose that I don't see it making in Bethesda. Happy to be proven wrong.
ReplyDelete7:34: I think the only difference I've noticed in Georgetown is the rise of other neighborhoods in D.C., and the development of Clarendon nightlife. You'll often see college kids walking over the Key Bridge in the evening, presumably to take Metro from Rosslyn to Clarendon.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I don't believe young people have given up on nightlife, is that we would be seeing them doing these other things they've presumably switched to in downtown Bethesda. Instead, the number of people has dropped, while the nightclubs in D.C. remain as crowded as ever. And again, I know people who still live here, but are now going into DC as opposed to BlackFinn or Union Jack's in Bethesda (R.I.P).
You're correct that Pike & Rose seems to have a coherent vision right now, where Bethesda Row is becoming schizophrenic, conflicted between the original high-end and
more recent middle-class identities. Pike & Rose is also attracting upper income African-Americans from outside of its immediate area, in my observation, something Bethesda Row and Rockville Town Square have never done to the same degree. That is helping to overcome the loss of wealthy MoCo residents that has hit Bethesda Row hard by tapping a new demographic.
Only RTS had a real nightlife component, the Rooftop, and that was apparently shut down by residents who believed they were moving into a retirement community as opposed to an urban center.
In contrast, The Wharf and National Harbor have many nightlife options.
1:35: That "new info" was developer propaganda. That's one reason readers come here, because they know I'm not going to post misleading information designed to fool the public.
ReplyDeleteHow come Pike & Rose, downtown Silver Spring, Rio and Crown aren't being wiped out by the Nighttime Economy Task Force's War on Bars? Only downtown Bethesda?
ReplyDelete5:48: The nighttime economy is down countywide. It only hits hardest in Bethesda because the rents are so high.
ReplyDeleteNone of the places you mentioned have the type of nightclubs you find in D.C., or formerly in Bethesda. Again, just a beer at the bar, maybe a town-center cover band if you're lucky. All you're going to find in the club category are smaller, niche, ethnic clubs in downtown Silver Spring or Wheaton.
Game. Set. Match. D.C. nightlife.
Just man up and admit your guys on the Council just aren't that smart or talented.
As someone who lives in Downtown Silver Spring, I think things are going pretty good there. Come down on. Saturday night, and you'll find three breweries pretty packed. We have Quarry House, which is always a good time, and people are drinking outdoors at Urban Butcher and El Sapo. Not to mention we got Silver Strings now, and soon to get the Eleanor. Plus the clubs you mentioned.
DeleteI don't disagree with you about Bethesda, but in SS, I'd argue things have improved.
It must suck to keep losing those guys in landslides.
ReplyDelete6:01: Yeah, it really is embarrassing when you look at the list of companies they failed to attract to MoCo, losing to Virginia: Northrop, Amazon HQ2, Volkswagen, CEB, Gerber, Intelsat, Lidl, Hilton Hotels, Nestle.
ReplyDeleteHumiliating!
"shut down by residents who believed they were moving into a retirement community as opposed to an urban center."
ReplyDeleteSounds like the NIMBYs in the neighborhoods adjacent to downtown Bethesda.
What are you talking about. Bethesda Nightlife awesome. Go to Saphires. Clean, great barstools,and knuckle head owner and loser bartenders.
ReplyDeleteV+S is a huge loss. There are so many highly talented local musicians, but so few places for them to play anymore.
ReplyDeleteChrist, we need new leadership if our councilman is claiming downtown Bethesda never had nightlife and never will.
ReplyDeleteTotally false.
9:10, FWIW, as a single female I stopped going to S.S. at night in almost all cases. I'm from lower Mont. Co., lived here all my life -- it used to be comfortable to walk to back to my car by myself in S.S.; never gave it a thought for years. Then one night I had no choice but to walk in the right lane of Georgia Avenue (yes, with moving cars) (right in downtown S.S.). Never have gone back, except a couple of concerts with someone to walk me to my car afterwards. No, thanks; you can have it.
ReplyDeleteAre you talking about the construction that closed the sidewalks on GA south of Bonifant?
DeleteNo, I’m talking about guys hanging out on the sidewalks who were intimidating enough that I preferred to play in traffic for almost a block to get to my car, which was parked on Georgia in downtown S.S. This from someone who went to the old 9:30 Club alone many times (for newcomers, 930 F Street, NW and vicinity used to be a seriously sketchy area).
ReplyDeleteI would go as far as to agree that some of the crowd is not wonderful at night, but you should come give it another chance. Overall, it's not Bethesda, but it's usually fine.
DeleteAt V+S, saw many memorable shows; the best: standing right in front of Nils Lofgren playing unbilled on that tiny stage a few months ago!
ReplyDeleteIs Bethesda supposed to have good nightlife? Isn't it kind of the point that it doesn't? Some later night restaurants is really all that crowd wants and anything more you are an uber ride away from DC. If you can live in Bethesda, you can afford an uber
ReplyDelete