The Norfolk Avenue shared-street amenity proposed in the Bethesda Downtown master plan may not come to pass. It would have created a woonerf, a street shared by automobiles, cyclists, and pedestrians at low speeds. Montgomery County planning officials are now instead proposing to make the Norfolk Avenue Streetery outdoor dining space permanent between St. Elmo and Cordell Avenues, under the recommendation of the Bethesda Urban Partnership and the Bethesda Implementation Advisory Committee. They say it will accomplish some goals of the shared-street on a smaller scale, and for a lower price tag.
Instead of the current tables and seating used in the streetery area, the new proposal would fund permanent pavilion structures on that block of Norfolk. Renderings also show the asphalt roadway replaced or covered with another material. This would permanently block automobile traffic from traveling down the full length of Norfolk, and deep-six the promised shared-street connection of the Battery Lane area with Veterans Park and the core of the central business district.
The Bethesda Urban Partnership is seeking a transfer of $485,278 from the Downtown Bethesda Amenity Fund to purchase materials, and to construct the permanent Streetery. Some restaurant owners in the neighborhood have spoken in opposition to the current, temporary Streetery, for reducing visibility of their businesses and eliminating parking for patrons or pickup of takeout orders. On the other hand, many residents have called for Streeteries closed to cars to be made permanent on Norfolk, and on Woodmont Avenue at Bethesda Row. The latter Streetery was recently reconfigured to add vehicular lanes for automobiles, and short-term parking spaces for business use.
What do you mean "permanent seizure"?
ReplyDeleteThe County owns the road and has for its entire existence.
I still believe the so called woonerf or “shared street”is a dangerous idea, just waiting for a runaway car to plow though pedestrians. Perhaps the county now understands this and is suggesting a good compromise. Completely vacate one block and provide appropriate barricade planters to create a safe place to dine outside.
ReplyDeleteThe big red pavilion seems like it might be an iconic idea, sort of a modern linear gazebo. Perhaps including a permanent bandstand with power and lighting for music events in the Trangle.
Looks great. Hopefully the county can "seize" more of its own land in the future.
ReplyDeleteSeems like this will replace Veterans Park as the center point for activities. Many events have already shifted to the streetery such as last weekends holiday festivities.
ReplyDeleteAll the bike lobbyists are rejoicing. How predictable. This is anti-car pure and simple.
ReplyDeleteI cannot believe (it's MoCo, so I guess I can) that we're here. Every street will no have a lane taken out in order to build expensive and dedicate bike lanes which will not (and have not) been used enough to even justify them. In downtown Bethesda right now, you can barely move in a car. Ah, that's their goal. Get rid of your car. One of the many dumb ideas.
This permanent closure will really be popular when it's dark and 30 degrees not to mention beating sun and humid and 90. Unreal!
That big red pavilion looks cool but won’t it block the stage for live music events?
ReplyDeleteSeizure sounds like a military takeover.
ReplyDeleteI really hope they don't do this. I would much prefer an expansion of and improvement of the sitting area in the park on Woodmont. This will also force more cars to use Old Georgetown road when going through the neighborhood looking to park, and will generally create more traffic, not less. Adding bike lanes and extending the the sidewalk is fine. Not this. We are not NYC. And just look at what happened to Little Rock when they closed streets downtown.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who lived on St. Elmo for several years and in greater Bethesda I welcome this move. The loss of under 15 parking spaces to gain a valuable activity area has more than outweighed the negatives provided. The area truly became a gathering place and my friends and I made frequent use of the space while patronizing the local businesses there. The street became a true night time destination with music and entertainment.
ReplyDeleteThis will create a great continued draw to the Woodmont Triangle area and funds to transform it would be well spent. There are plenty of better travel corridors motorists can use and plenty of parking within two blocks. If there is a concern over pick up/handicap areas offer additional places on St. Elmo or Cordell instead of regular parking.
Veterans Park good, Corruptions Park bad.
ReplyDeleteSo we will spend more money to build pavilions? Far better to plan for temporary usage as with the Streetery, so that we have more points of access and egress in case of an emergency. The traffic backs up enough in Bethesda; we do not need to close this street!
ReplyDeleteI love how JAC finds a way to complain in literally every comment thread. He doesn't even seem to read the articles beforehand since apparently he thinks this has something to do with adding bike lanes when the opposite is true. While the downtown plan suggests Norfolk have either A. two 6-foot wide bike lanes or B. a shared street concept outlined by Robert, this new idea appears to have no bicycle-specific accommodation at all. Which isn't to say it's a bad plan - it clearly will be a very popular, pedestrian-filled amenity.
ReplyDelete5:49
ReplyDeleteThas a good idea. Keeping the street usable in case of an emergency.
Learning
8:48 - What I don't love is how many seemingly support this nonsense. As I've said many times, these are roads not parks and not pedestrian plazas. They were designed to carry automobile traffic period. It is about bikes that's silly not to recognize that. More than that even, this is anti-car. The businesses don't want this and have said so. This creates way more problems and doesn't solve anything because nothing is broken here. I don't understand why this kind of project couldn't go in where the huge surface lot is behind the Women's market which is slated to come down. That would be perfect. But to drop a park right in the middle of the street is really unbelievable. That's what you get when you elect kooks like Elrich.
ReplyDeleteNot supporting a taxpayer funded plan to permanently close county streets and turn them into pedestrian only parks is complaining? 8:48 is welcome to chime in. But I simply disagree with plans such as this paid for with my and our money and with no real taxpayer input. They work for us remember? They don't simply have carte blanche to do whatever they want but sure act as though they do. Wait until the traffic becomes unbearable then more will come to sites like this and express their discontent. Complaining? No, offering a different take at a minimum.
ReplyDeleteRobert, thank you for posting about the Bethesda Streateries (using an A because it's a street + eat). You are correct about the Norfolk streatery - it will be closed to vehicles with art, furniture, and landscape to be installed. This concept was part of the master plan and was molded over several months, with many opportunities for public input. The end result is the plan you shared in your post. I will note there will still be fire/safety access designed in a creative manner. In addition, there are alternative ways for drivers to get around the streatery because as you know it's a series of grids. As for Woodmont, which is a much larger block then Norfolk, it is a temporary design with shared use for bikes, vehicles, and dining by creating three distinct areas. Woodmont will also have furniture, landscape, and art. If this concept works to the satisfaction of the community - including the businesses, it may be made permanent.
ReplyDelete@ JAC - Most of the streets of the Woodmont Triangle north of Fairmont Avenue and south of Auburn Avenue had been built by 1900, long before automobiles were the dominant form of transportation. You can verify this by going to Historic Aerials and viewing the USGS topographical map for that year. You need to get over this notion that all streets must serve drivers first, last and only.
ReplyDeleteHere, here! Thank you for this well informed (and balanced) perspective!
Delete7:45 - I hear what you're saying, but the fact that the roads were built in 1900 doesn't mean that today bikes should take over from cars which in part is what's happening. Roads are roads not parks. Are parks and plazas bad? Of course not. But why on earth do these streeteries need to be placed in the middle of downtown Bethesda? They couldn't put one in a surface parking lot? There are a few places. This will not be popular. People need to get places whether in a gas guzzler or Tesla.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of the bike lanes, but rarely see bicyclists. I can think of one guy in the past week.on woodmont. I honestly see more rental scooters utilized than bikes these days in downtown Bethesda and Silver Spring.
ReplyDelete" This will not be popular."
ReplyDeleteIt may be popular for those who live close by and can walk to these places. It will not be popular to those who come into town looking to spend money, and to the restaurants who have substantial take-out business. We will see if the local people can spend enough to keep the restaurants happy. I, for one, stopped going into downtown Bethesda because it's a hassle.
We used to go all the time.
There are plenty of other options which are easier to access.
And to anyone who thinks this and all the other silliness going on is not anti-car, well, I've got some FTX shares to sell you!
12:36 - Agree 💯. Exactly correct.
ReplyDelete12:02 - Thank you for saying something so simple and so true. This is a major disruption at significant taxpayer expense. And as you rightly point out, to little benefit. This is now what's known as virtue signaling. Look at us the county council says, we're protecting the environment, we're reducing our carbon footprint. It's all BS and now people can't get around Bethesda. Ever see any bikes on the old Gtwn Road lanes? Never. And they're extending them all the way up the Pike towards Tuckerman. No one uses them. Wait for that traffic. This is forever folks. They'll never take these things down. Ever.
ReplyDeleteJAC sure talks a lot for someone who doesn't even live in downtown Bethesda. The opinion of actual residents is the only thing that matters. Our neighborhood doesn't exist so that you can drive through it real fast, guy. If you don't want to hang out on Norfolk then great. Literally no one will miss you.
ReplyDelete8:20 - what a totally ridiculous, immature and patently false thing to say. anyone is entitled to state whatever they want on sites such as this provided that the administrator approve it to post. but sorry, everything said by whomever you are is absurd and completely untrue. so Bethesda residents for multi generations aren't citizens of Bethesda? ok.
ReplyDeleteI love the way JAC talks about Norfolk Avenue as if it is a major thoroughfare, rather than a quarter-mile-long local street.
ReplyDelete5:29 - so, it's not a street? what is it then please tell us.
ReplyDeleteJAC @ 5:23 AM said:
ReplyDeleteBethesda residents for multi generations aren't citizens of Bethesda?
Here is what 8:20 PM actually said:
someone who doesn't even live in downtown Bethesda.
I'd like to turn the public space in front of JAC's house into a streatery. My opinion is obviously just as valid as his even though I live miles away. #JAClogic
ReplyDelete8:04 - doesn't matter in fact because no one knows where anyone who posts here lives. How can someone say another doesn't live in downtown Bethesda? They don't know that.
ReplyDelete10:02 - Are these streets designed to carry automobile traffic or are they parks? Please answer that. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteJAC @ 6:13 AM - try reading more slowly. @ 5:31 AM said that it is a street.
ReplyDelete6 blocks, averaging about 250 feet long each, with a stop sign or traffic light at either end, and pedestrians constantly crossing. You're only driving on that street if you are visiting a business on that street or just around the corner on one of the cross streets. Even driving 25 MPH is barely appropriate. Yet for some reason you consider it equivalent to Old Georgetown Road or Woodmont Avenue.
JAC @ 10:46 AM -
ReplyDeleteYou mean like Moorland Lane and Hampden Lane immediately east of Arlington Road?