An interesting piece in USA Today on the top 25 tech industry job growth jurisdictions in America ended up making the opposite point of its pro-smart-growth title. Currently-urbanizing Montgomery County failed to make the list, and so did the District, which is ostensibly the model MoCo is now following in regards to development and transportation policies. Not even Arlington or Fairfax are on it. Who in the DC region did make the list?
Exurban Loudoun and Prince William Counties. Neither of which is known for nightlife, transit-oriented urban centers, or other amenities that ostensibly draw "the young and the hip" to urban areas. While the article touts an "urban renaissance," the most recent data shows that urban growth has stalled or is going backwards, and the suburbs are now growing faster than cities. Did you know that, when you are using the internet, 70% of your data is streaming through Loudoun County? If anything, the establishment of Loudoun and Prince William as tech growth centers makes the case for an Outer Beltway even stronger, to manage the workers commuting there. It also again shows the foresight in the planning of the Silver Line through booming-but-squarely-suburban Tysons out to Loudoun.
Another intriguing data point in the study, is the growth rate of non-tech private jobs between 2007-2012. Loudoun (8.7%) and Prince William (6.8%) have had an astounding growth rate, only behind the Texas Miracle of Denton County (11.9%) and Kings County, NY (11.2%).
The success of DC's exurbs - listed alongside New York City, San Francisco and other major urban employment centers on this Top 25 - proves the point again that all of the alcohol, nightlife and high-density development in the world won't assure economic development nor job growth. No one would consider Loudoun or Prince William a hot nightlife spot. Yet both are among the 25 most attractive places to skilled tech workers. That's because they have the companies - and most importantly, the jobs. Conversely, think about Las Vegas. Vegas has arguably the best nightlife in America. But young workers are not flocking to Vegas, because it doesn't have the corporate headquarters and jobs.
Jobs are the biggest draw for college graduates, making economic development - and the attraction of major firms with high-wage jobs - far more critical than high-density development or nightlife. That also includes considering what else Loudoun and Prince William are doing right, that Montgomery County isn't.
46 comments:
This is cherry picking, pure and simple. All you must do is look at the Census to find where all the high-skilled, high-income people work (cities, including Washington D.C.).
You also failed to mention the gigantic tax breaks it takes to get a large corporation to relocate somewhere.
But I'm sure you'll come up with some red herring arguments in the next few comments. Because Robert Dyer, brave local journalist, is never ever wrong.
It's telling that Intelsat just moved from DC to Tysons.
I'm still hoping White Flint can attract at least one new Fortune 500 company. Otherwise, we can't say we're seriously competing with Tysons. I support the new White Flint, but where are the businesses? The appeal was that you could work and live in the same city.
@ 7:10am
Dyer goes out of his way to bash MoCo whenever possible. It's truly surprising that he still lives here.
@ 7:34am Anon
Merrill Lynch recently moved their consolidated regional HQ to PIke and Rose. I wouldn't hold my breath for any F500's moving to MD though. All of our F500's (including the one's that recently moved away) have been "homegrown."
Don't be so sensitive to constructive criticism. I don't see it as bashing. Robert is a life long resident and wants the county to succeed again.
There is a serious question I'd love to see debated with facts. Why don't companies want to locate in Bethesda? We've been named the most educated city in the country, have access to transit, have plenty of restaurants, etc.
But, never even on the short list for major corporations anymore, empty class A buildings right by Metro right now.
"There is a serious question I'd love to see debated with facts. Why don't companies want to locate in Bethesda? We've been named the most educated city in the country, have access to transit, have plenty of restaurants, etc.
But, never even on the short list for major corporations anymore, empty class A buildings right by Metro right now."
Because companies go where the tax breaks are! It's not rocket science. Intelsat, the company referenced by another commenter, moved to Tysons because they got a $1 million grant from the state of Virginia's economic development fund! Not because of the Silver Line or "amenities." (Those didn't hurt, but Bethesda has all those things).
It's about the money. And if you believe your state government should poach large corporations from other states with your tax money, go hang out with Rick Perry.
Are we destined to just be a bedroom county where are people commute in to DC and NoVa each day? Is that good or bad for us?
I'm not fan of Perry, even with his new glasses, but I'd love to see some of the jobs these major corporations could bring in to the county.
Wait, what? Is this blog post for real? Has Dyer never taken Econ101? Of course if you look at PERCENT growth that'll always favor some no-name exburb. If some nowhere place grows from 500 jobs to 600 jobs that's a whopping 20% y/y increase! How amazing! It's the best place in the world! Opportunities abound! Not.
I prefer MoCo for many reasons, but I'd hardly call Loudoun a no name exurb.
The Internet boom really put them on the map with companies like AOL located in that region.
This is not cherry picking. The data is right from the study presented in the article. Arlington paid $4.5 M for CEB world headquarters; MoCo paid $4 M to get a Costco store. Who spent more wisely?
8:02 That's a talking point Nancy Floreen used. She said the county's economic development problems were to a great extent because of criticism, not the flawed policies themselves. You can judge her credibility from that statement.
Pike & Rose is not world, or even national, headquarters for Merrill Lynch. It's a regional office.
I don't think tax breaks are the only draw. But, assuming they were, do you think Starbucks and farmers markets are a sustainable economic development model, and we should cede the Fortune 500s to our competitors?
If MoCo wants to attract more millenials, they need to attract more companies with good jobs. We can do better than costco.
9:22 Yep, it's for real, and yes, I did take ECON 101. Check the study again - Loudoun and Prince William are on the list with such "no-names" as New York City and San Francisco. Opportunities do abound in Northern VA. Meanwhile, we haven't had a single large corporation move here in over a decade. And during that same period, MD lost nearly half of its industrial jobs. Embarrassing.
8:50 Yes, on our current path, we are destined to be a bedroom community. With no demand for office space, as a result of no major corporation wanting to relocate here, all development is residential. Look at the EYA plan for Rock Spring, the switch from office to residential in King Farm, White Flint, Clarksburg, Wheaton, etc. for evidence. Smart growth was a ruse to jam in the maximum luxury residential, and push lower income residents out of the county. Bedroom community = just more cars on the road to the real jobs in DC and NoVa every morning.
Are you telling me Dough Roller is not a Fortune 500 company? Why else would Dyer suit up for his first visit?
@8:02 Of course Robert still lives here. He's waiting for the right moment to take over the county, build 35 interstates all leading into MoCo and then smile as all Fortune 500 companies start moving in to our great county!
Unfortunately, great pizza was not among the criteria for the Top 25 tech job growth centers list.
11:41 We actually only need to build 2 freeways - the Outer Beltway crossing to Dulles, and the Rockville Freeway. And one county highway, the M-83.
"It's about the money. And if you believe your state government should poach large corporations from other states with your tax money, go hang out with Rick Perry.
8:40 AM"
So you think the net economic effect of a Fortune 500 headquarters moving to Montgomery County would be negative if a tax break were offered? You've got to break a few eggs to make an omelet.
Where dem hoes at? Thats where I wanna be!
Robert,
Anonymous was complaining earlier this morning that he/she believed Intelsat got a $1 million grant from Virginia and that Maryland and MoCo were above that sort of thing.
But he/she is ok with the $4 million for one Costco store!?
Robert,
Anonymous was complaining earlier this morning that he/she believed Intelsat got a $1 million grant from Virginia and that Maryland and MoCo were above that sort of thing.
But he/she is ok with the $4 million for one Costco store!?
Woodmont, not only did Tysons get Intelsat, but Arlington got 2000 CEB jobs + 800 new CEB jobs that average $100,000 in salary - for only $500,000 more than MoCo paid for the McJobs of a single Costco store! Any other jurisdiction would have media critics who would be roasting MoCo elected officials daily for their minor league, Clowntown USA economic development record.
My impression in hearing longtime MoCo business leaders talk is that they are resigned to the current sad state of affairs with our MoCo leadership.
The MoCo council doesn't have the courage to propose any bold initiatives. They're content to play small ball and, for larger projects, they're hesistant and hedge their bets (i.e. make the CCT a bus route instead of rail). We don't have cohesive plan for our new downtown in White Flint.
The Silver Line has opened, but my county can't open a new bus depot after so many years in Silver Spring.
Small ball is definitely the term. The switch from rail to bus for the CCT was a colossal blunder. Now it not only will have lower ridership and economic development benefit, but it also no longer qualifies for the federal funds a rail CCT was eligible for. All so that they could just get the CCT running sooner, so developers could build, build, build a city in the country, a classic sprawl plan that is going to dump thousands more cars onto failing I-270 every morning. Brilliant!
Bob, I thought you loved Pike and Rose?! What the fuck man? What is your agenda ?!
To Bob & Anonymous: Pike & Rose is going to be great, but I'm wondering about the rest of the White Flint plan.
Right now, it seems each new development is a community within itself with no cohesion. Folks can't even decide on what to call the area yet. And, where are the good jobs? If we could lure a couple major corporate HQs to anchor the area...
5:52 I just pointed out the nature of the Merrill Lynch office there, which a commenter was trying to equate with the international corporate headquarters found in Northern Virginia. That doesn't mean the whole development is good or bad, just a factual statement that Pike & Rose is not the world headquarters of Merrill Lynch.
Woodmont, that's the problem with the "new" White Flint. Rather than a central "town center," it is going to be - ultimately - a hodgepodge of 8 or 9 town centers up and down the Pike. Not all of them can be successful. Pike and Rose has the advantage of having Federal Realty behind it, and is clearly the front runner at this stage. As much as I oppose the demolition of White Flint Mall, you can't count out Lerner and Tower in terms of retail management and operations. Unfortunately, Fortune 500 companies have no interest in coming to MoCo under the current anti-business climate, lack of direct Dulles Airport access, and poor transportation system.
I'm one of the 80mil a year cyber security firms that just took 700 jobs to Tysons. Why? Lower taxes, cheaper class A office space, a very good EDA, and more business friendliness. The Fairfax EDA is a serious operation with a great staff. The Moco EDA is one old guy behind a beat up desk in the back corner of the Rockville Library. Virginia is just more friendly.
The anti-Robert Dyer posts here and the people who claim how awesome Montgomery County is are clearly not business owners or entrepreneurs and are more likely people who are so high on themselves and the fact that they live in Bethesda or Potomac, that they cannot understand common business sense. The business environment in Montgomery County and Maryland in general is why 9 out of the 11 fortune 500 companies in Maryland left in the last 5 years. It is the reason Beretta left. It is the reason why McCormick Spices, Underarmour, Black and Decker/Stanley, Lockheed Martin, and Marriot are seriously considering leaving to more business supportive states. They are not just moving across the river. They are going to Florida, Texas, and other states that are open for business. Even New York City has more business oriented taxation and has great incentives. I am a lifelong Bethesda resident like Robert. The quality of life here is excellent, the schools are great, and the infrastructure is great. The business atmosphere is not.
The best way to do this is by economies of scale. You make money on the volume of businesses by lowering taxes. More business, more tax. And Merrill Lynch already has their regional offices here, they are just moving to new office space.
Can one of you pro-tax people list the Fortune 500s that have moved to Maryland for their World Headquarters. Please do not sight Marriott, LockMart, or non-Fortune 500s like Choice Hotels.
Dyer: "McJobs of a single Costco store"
1. you're a huge dick.
2. you're hugely ignorant. That Costco has over 500 full time employees w/an average starting salary of $45K+benefits. Insult those 500 people all you want, but they're good, solid middle class jobs. Not to mention a great regional draw to the previously stagnant mall.
"The business environment in Montgomery County and Maryland in general is why 9 out of the 11 fortune 500 companies in Maryland left in the last 5 years."
You're absolutely, embarrassingly ignorant. Research the actual facts, please. Those companies didn't leave and neither did their jobs. M&A might means their HQs technically aren't in MD anymore, but that doesn't actually have an impact on anything except to give ignorant trolls something to whine about.
6:17:
1. Very mature, elegant use of language.
2. When did I insult anybody? I'd like people trying to live in Montgomery County on $45K a year to respond to your message. Not to mention comparing 800 jobs that average $100,000 a year (CEB in Rosslyn w/$4.5M investment by ArlCo.) with 500 jobs at $45K a year at Costco ($4M investment by MoCo). There's no comparison. I don't get the argument - just because the work employees at Costco do is good means that the county should continue to have a moribund economic development policy?
And those 800 jobs were on top of the almost 2000 jobs already created by CEB moving into the Rosslyn office tower.
Calling someone's job a "McJob" isn't meant to be insulting (not to mention ignorantly off-base in this instance)??? Why do people even try to converse with you? And you're supremely out of touch if you think $45K isn't a nice entry salary, even in MoCo. That's roughly how much my wife and I each make and we cover the expenses of our modest house just fine - just like hundreds of thousands of other MoCo households in our income bracket.
You're perfectly entitled to think the county should be handing out more subsidies to more companies, but, frankly, there's a reason so few take your opinions seriously and it's because you come off as a complete jackass just trying to piss on people and the county.
Wow, this certainly turned into an interesting thread.
@ Mr. Dyer
It really is amazing how often you manage to contradict yourself.
You claim to be a champion of private business and well-paying jobs, yet you senselessly denigrate developers any opportunity you get. Last I checked, these developers are private-sector businesses. What's more, is that developers are a critical component in the effort to attract the F500 companies you desperately seek. JBG is the company that facilitated CEB's Rosslyn and Macerich helped to attract Intelsat to Tysons. Yet, you routinely berate these developers and their projects. Ironically though, from the other side of your mouth you visit these sing projects and sing praise about them.
As an aside, having F500 HQ's isn't all glitter and gold, and is oftentimes overrated. Virginia paid through the nose in their fight with MD to have Hilton Worldwide relocate there from the West Coast. In return all they got were a few well-paid execs and their staff (nothing close to the Marriott complex in Rockledge). I wouldn't be surprised if Merrill Lynch will employ more people in White Flint than HH does at their "international HQ." But of course those (high-paying) jobs don't matter to you since it's not their world HQ...
In any case, to solely place blame on the county for the lack of new Fortune 500s is pretty narrow-minded and it shows that you don't truly understand the business world as much as you purport to. There are a lot of other (larger) forces at play:
1. The high cost of doing business in the state in general
2. The state's reliance on the federal agency and federal contractor sectors, which have been stagnant or contracting for over five years
3. Trend's to reduce office space/per employee in both the public and private sectors
4. The fact that the national economy is still in recovery mode and most businesses are staying put (or shedding space)
Anyway here's some food for thought:
- Downtown Bethesda's vacancy rate, at present, is lower than any major submarket in Northern Virginia.
- Silver Spring-based Discovery Communications recently became Montgomery County's newest Fortune 500 (although they were here before)
Oh yeah? Discovery's now in the 500? That's cool; I recall them being @ 600ish last I checked.
You're not gonna attract the professional millenials that the county says they're seeking with just retail jobs.
Of course we need retailers, but the question is, do we need to spend so much to subsidize them.
There's a total disconnect about millenials from the county. They're gonna live where they work! If their jobs are in NoVa and DC, they are not going to move to Gaithersburg, Bethesda, etc.
Fortune 500 HQs don't just employ CEOs and upper management.
They provide entry and mid level jobs as well.
We need some folks in MoCo government who have worked in the private sector to understand all of this.
I don't think Robert has berated anyone. From my perspective, some development projects are better than others.
10:11 PM - In regards to the question of economic development, you are saying that $45,000 jobs at Costco are keeping us competitive with Tysons, Loudoun, Prince William, etc.? And that having 1 Costco store is a major trophy that will have a halo effect to draw Fortune 500 companies here?
How does valid criticism of the county's political and economic development leadership have anything to do with the citizens of Montgomery County? They aren't the ones making the bad decisions.
I wasn't aware that having a different opinion from the MoCo Machine made one a "jackass," as you put it. Outside of Montgomery County, it's called free thinking and intelligent debate.
9:04 AM - Interesting, indeed.
How have I "senselessly denigrated" developers? There's always a logical argument to any criticism I've made. I've also made many positive comments, as well. What you call contradiction is simply the fact that I praise what is praiseworthy, and criticize what is - in my personal opinion - not. White Flint Plan? Terrible. Creative design touches at Pike & Rose? Good. If you're looking for rehashed press releases and coverage that accepts all claims by politicians or developers at face value, you're at the wrong place.
How is it wrong to blame the county, when they've failed to address the Dulles access and tax/regulation changes businesspeople have told us are needed for them to locate here? Has the council put the Potomac River crossing in the master plan? No.
I would love to sit in on a conversation between you and Lt. Gov. Anthony Brown about his and the state's role in your failure at the county level. Can we set up that lunch? That would be hugely entertaining. Can we consider this your endorsement of Larry Hogan?
Fortune 500 companies are not overrated; places like Texas, and NoVa are thriving. I agree with you that the economy hasn't recovered as much as we keep hearing from the media. But that makes it all the more important that we revamp our approach in the county. If you look at the advantages and educated population we have, a more muscular approach would easily make us the top economy in the nation. For instance, in aerospace, we have Lockheed here now, NASA in Greenbelt and Wallops Island as a launch facility. Why aren't we capitalizing on that?
I think the owners of 4500 East-West Highway and 7550 Wisconsin would differ with your assessment of office space vacancies in Bethesda. As would Greg Trimmer of JBG, who recently described the MoCo office market as the worst in 30 years.
It's funny you mention JBG, as I've praised their projects as being among the best architecturally in both downtown Bethesda and White Flint. They certainly played a role in the CEB deal, but, remember, they had tremendous support from Arlington County and Virginia to back up their efforts. I'm sure JBG would like to have that support here as well.
@ Anonymous 11:10am
Yes, Discovery Communications is now #460 and is rapidly growing:
http://fortune.com/fortune500/discovery-communications-inc-460/
@ Mr. Dyer
If you look back at my post I said that you were "solely" blaming the county, and ignoring the bigger picture and the myriad of other factors involved. The county is obviously partly to blame. (If I were in charge, my first task would be to replace Steve Silverman). As for the White Flint plan and Potomac crossing we clearly don't see eye to eye.
The state's failure to lure Fortune 500 companies is a chronic problem largely a result on heavy reliance on federal agencies and their contractors, and can't be placed on any single politician.
I'm pretty sure I agree with most developers in the county by stating that the Class A office market is very stagnant in the county and the region on a whole. My comment about Bethesda's vacancies was only to point out that relative to most CBD's in Northern Virginia (which you seem to idolize), such as Rosslyn, Ballston, Crystal/Pentagon City, and even Tysons, downtown Bethesda isn't doing really bad at all.
The CEB lease in Rosslyn, for instance, is a lateral move that will dump the same amount of empty space on the market that is being built--good for CEB and JBG, but bad for the Rosslyn market in general. Monday Properties completed a gleaming skyscraper last fall and as far as I know, has yet to sign any tenants. All this is on top of the NSF, US Fish & Wildlife, and Dept. of Labor all leaving the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor within a few years. It's not all sunshine and roses south of the Potomac...
Dyer: "10:11 PM - In regards to the question of economic development, you are saying that $45,000 jobs at Costco are keeping us competitive with Tysons, Loudoun, Prince William, etc.? And that having 1 Costco store is a major trophy that will have a halo effect to draw Fortune 500 companies here?"
Huh? No. If you need to reread what was said, then feel free. If you're attempting to just swat at stawmen all day then carry on; you're doing an excellent job of it.
3:15 I don't see how failing to land private companies like Northrup Grumman, Volkswagen, Hilton Hotels, and the CEB is an overreliance on the federal government. I'm also not sure why you would oppose direct access to Dulles Airport. The trends in defense and aerospace - two solid industries that will never go out of style - are moving to the international market. Meaning we need Dulles to compete, as well as to attract more of those firms. The Iraq airstrikes are simply the latest headline making my point as to the infinite demand for munitions and war machines.
Finally, if we've failed to score any of the above firms, as well as others, how would the people in office at that time be free of blame? They set the policies, taxes and regulations that businesses clearly find utterly unappealing. And who have held commuters hostage to a transit-only plan that has given us the worst traffic in the nation, solely to benefit real estate developers. There's much more to economic development than real estate development.
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