Residents polled in suburban Maryland, D.C. and Northern Virginia said transportation is the top long-term issue for our region, and a majority favor investing in projects to reduce congestion. By a margin of 2-to-1, they said congestion is getting worse, not better.
59% of residents favor building a new bridge across the Potomac north of the American Legion Bridge. 71% favor adding Express Lanes to the Capital Beltway in Maryland. And 70% favor widening I-270. 75% would like Metro to provide 8-car trains.
Of course, this all costs money. The highway projects provide more bang for the buck, and move more commuters for each dollar spent. All three projects cited above could be built entirely at private expense, since they would most likely be toll lanes/roads/bridges. But even as public projects, they are far cheaper than light rail or bus rapid transit. A highway could be built for the same price as the Purple Line cost overrun, to demonstrate how much more affordable roads are than transit.
Any of the road projects listed above, as well as the Rockville Freeway or M-83 Midcounty Highway Extended, would carry more commuters per day than the entire BRT system proposed by Montgomery County - and more than the Purple Line and Corridor Cities Transitway combined.
60% of residents said they would be willing "to pay a little bit more" to construct these and other projects, including widening I-66 in Virginia.
The survey was conducted by OpinionWorks. 800 randomly-selected residents were interviewed by telephone, with a margin of error of 3.5%.
66 comments:
"The highway projects provide more bang for the buck, and move more commuters for each dollar spent. All three projects cited above could be built entirely at private expense, since they would most likely be toll lanes/roads/bridges. But even as public projects, they are far cheaper than light rail or bus rapid transit. A highway could be built for the same price as the Purple Line cost overrun, to demonstrate how much more affordable roads are than transit."
"Any of the road projects listed above, as well as the Rockville Freeway or M-83 Midcounty Highway Extended, would carry more commuters per day than the entire BRT system proposed by Montgomery County - and more than the Purple Line and Corridor Cities Transitway combined."
No actual numbers cited. Just another pile of unsubstantiated bullshit from Dyer this morning.
Dyer, do you support widening the Beltway between I-270 and the American Legion Bridge? You opposed doing this when you were running for Council in 2010.
4:52: I guess you're not up on the cost of building highways these days, or on the recently-announced and widely-reported cost overrun amount for the Purple Line.
5:11: I think you're talking about when I ran for delegate in 2006, and a widening was proposed at that time which they said would have required demolition of homes in Bethesda. These are two different projects you're talking about here.
"Just Google it!" says Rosie O'Dyer.
"I think you're talking about when I ran for delegate in 2006"
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you had lost only two elections. I didn't realize that you had lost (at least) three.
Required reading for Dyer:
http://www.fastcodesign.com/3058823/how-apple-google-and-facebook-are-stuck-in-the-20th-century
Taxed enough already. No new taxes.
@5:23
You realize a new Potomac crossing will require the bulldozing of a ton of homes as well right?
It's no surprise that the most popular option was adding capacity to Metro, while a new insanely expensive bridge requiring the destruction of neighborhoods is the least popular. I am in favor of adding lanes to the MD Beltway however.
"It's no surprise that the most popular option was adding capacity to Metro, while a new insanely expensive bridge requiring the destruction of neighborhoods is the least popular."
Worth repeating the point that Dyer missed completely.
Also, maybe Dyer could tell us how the Dulles Greenway is doing these days.
There goes the environment under this scheme. Pave, pave, pave.
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
‘Til it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot.
Still to this day. Dyer's pledge.
"Pave everywhere...
...except Westbard," says Dyer.
If these are our best options for the future I feel sorry for the area. You thought the sprawl was bad now. We'll be the example that people give about not wanting to live in sprawling suburban hellscapes next to Atlanta if this goes in.
The Silver Line Metro stations in Tysons are under performing in terms of ridership, meanwhile traffic gets worse. Amazing that folks would rather sit in traffic than ride Metro, but it seems to be the case.
I lol'd
8:27 AM - How do you get to work?
7:23: The Dulles Greenway is under the airports authority, not a private toll road company. That, and the way they're using it to subsidize transit are why its a mess right now.
7:13: Wrong! Check the map - the right of way is clear from Sam Eig to the Potomac River. Transit scores higher because people have been brainwashed to favor it in theory. In practice? They get in their single occupancy vehicle and hit the highway.
7:10: As I mentioned, having the roads built privately would put little cost burden on the taxpayer. It's the BRT, Purple Line, etc. that are going to raise your taxes.
"The Dulles Greenway is under the airports authority, not a private toll road company...they're using it to subsidize transit are why its a mess right now."
The Dulles Greenway is not the Dulles Toll Road, you dunce. It is a privately-owned road, IIRC the only such expressway in the country, and it's done horribly ever since it was first built.
"Transit scores higher because people have been brainwashed"
Yep, and that's the types of rational arguments typical of this site.
9:23, not the only privately owned expressway. Indian Toll Road is owned by an Australian company.
"I guess yu're not up on the cost of building highways these days" - Robert Dyer
Not sure many readers are, so some numbers would be helpful if you don't mind as the journalist help provide us with some supporting info. Thanks!
9:23: I know the difference. I assumed you meant the Toll Road because that is the one that is gouging users. Why would you bring up the Greenway? It's not analogous to anything mentioned above.
10:06: There's no other explanation. Who would look at or experience the performance of Metro, and review the disastrous financials of the Purple Line, and say "I gotta get me some more of that!"?
Dulles Greenway gouges users even more. It's a fixed toll even if you get on it and get off at the next exit. That's why anyone heading to Ashburn or a bit past it will just get off at the VA-28 exit since that's the last exit on 267-W while it's still the Toll Road not the Greenway.
So when the respondents to the poll say that they favor the new Potomac crossing, the M-83, and widening the Beltway and I-270, they're making good choices, but when the same respondents, by a greater margin, say that they want more 8-car trains for the Metro, it's because they're "brainwashed".
Welcome to Robert Dyer's World of Thinkology.
6:13: I used to be one of them until I learned the history of how the DC freeway system was sabotaged. Most people, like me in the past, are not aware that the system was never fully built out. Ask the average person about "smart growth," "green," etc., and you'll get predictable responses based on how they feel they should answer. The relentless propaganda in the media, schools and universities has a real impact. A majority are dissatisfied with Metro, the majority are single-occupant automobile commuters, but look how they answer the poll! #Sheeple
"[L]ook how they answer the poll! #Sheeple"
So why did you bother citing it, then?
6:42: Because a majority still favoring these highway projects given those circumstances is big news. Relentless anti-highway propaganda across all media platforms, and a majority are still backing highways (maybe because a majority use roads, rather than transit?).
So are you in favor of obtaining more railcars for the Metro, and improving Metro's power supply so that they can run more 8-car trains?
Robert Dyer is really the only real choice we have. I will fight for your win until the bitter end.
Robert Dyer is the hero we all deserve.
It was not built out because of people trying to protect their neighborhoods. You would think that this blog would support that. I guess neighborhoods only matter if a strip mall is redeveloped and not if a highway needs to be built.
7:29: The number of houses in the way of master plan highways in Montgomery County is close to zero, as the rights-of-way have been there for decades.
In D.C., the number of homes to be torn down was intentionally inflated to turn public support against the freeways. North Central Freeway was to follow B&O Railroad right-of-way into Maryland. Northwest Freeway would have basically taken a bunch of rear parking lots along Wisconsin Avenue from Tenley Circle. It would have been in a trench, so the space could easily have been reclaimed for parking or development.
Redevelopment of a shopping center is for private profit. Highways, in contrast, have a public benefit.
"Maryland. Northwest Freeway would have basically taken a bunch of rear parking lots along Wisconsin Avenue from Tenley Circle."
Wrong. Hilariously wrong.
8:24: No, you're wrong. The right-of-way was in the parkland that runs next to Georgetown University, all the way up to Tenley Circle where it would pass underground and emerge on the east side of Wisconsin. And there are commercial properties all the way up to where Bish Thompson's used to be (briefly separated by the rear grounds of the Chevy Chase Club, where developers and the MoCo cartel are secretly planning to build mixed-use developments in the road's right-of-way). So you might or might not have had a few houses demolished in the residential parts of East Bethesda, and then there were just woods where the townhouses are at Jones Bridge and 355, then the Naval base, and then the right-of-way along Elmhirst north of Cedar Lane.
It could still be built today if funds were spent to bury portions of it, but to claim I'm "hilariously wrong" is just a hilariously aggressive flailing about by an anti-car person who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.
You know what would be better than having a bunch of freeways running through walkable neighborhoods? More walkable neighborhoods connected by sensible transit, coupled with incentives for firms to adopt telework options when possible.
How many of the Save Westbard crowd would be down with having a new freeway running their backyards?
G. Money, the Metro is arguably more of a community-divider in Rockville than I-270. Speaking for myself, I would be delighted to have a new freeway. Unfortunately, the Westbard plan currently contains no road projects despite allowing for thousands of new cars to be brought to Westbard.
I'm all in favor of sensible transit and telework. As we learned during the Papal visit and the Metro shutdown, we have a lot of people commuting who could be working at home or at telework centers in the suburban counties.
"the Metro is arguably more of a community-divider in Rockville"
Another idiotic claim.
2:25: Just last week a Rockville resident was telling the Mayor and Council how the city is divided by the Metro tracks. You might want to visit and check it out for yourself.
Anonymous4:52 AM, spoken like a possible Northern Virginian tax payer that don't want the Maryland suburbs to build Major Highways like Northern Virginia due to fear that it will attract Competative Business growth potentially rivaling NoVA
Anonymous6:13 PM,
1.) Why is VA never challenged with the same "either or" Highways or Transit like MD tax payer have been hussled on for decades.
2.) Stop the BS with the people want more 8 car trains because now they want to force unreliable rapid transit buses down busy streets in Montgomery County.
G. Money1:48 PM, In your Good Ol Boy world you would rather Virginia have all the Major Highways, Office Parks, and Upscale Retail While Maryland get stuck with trolley like Rapid Buses, narrow rural style roads, cheap unpopular retail stores, zero upscale retail, deserted office buildings, zero office parks, and illegals from south of the boarder adding more low income neighborhoods.
Anonymous2:25 PM "Another idiotic claim."
So says the Maryland hater possibly from Virginia the don't want Maryland to have any Highways, Office Growth, and Upscale Retail enclosed Mega Malls.
Dyer, the Metro tracks in Rockville are right next to the railroad tracks, which were there for nearly a century before. Somehow you (and that person you cite) never noticed this?
@ 3:07 PM - Are your spell-check and grammar-check not functioning properly?
His brain is not functioning properly.
"60% of residents said they would be willing "to pay a little bit more" to construct these and other projects, including widening I-66 in Virginia."
Wbat does I-66 have to do with Montgomery County? Not only is it not in Montgomery County, it does not even connect to Montgomery County, or anywhere in Maryland..
4:12: The Metro is different from the railroad, because you can't cross subway tracks. There were many more crossings when it was just the railroad running through the city. That's a big difference, and I "noticed" it.
6:10: I-66 was supposed to link to Maryland via the Northwest Freeway.
Anonymous6:10 PM, again you people hate the idea of the Maryland suburbs having modern Multi-Lanes Interstate Highways while supporting more Highway projects in Virginia and NC.
Robert Dyer8:44 PM, I did not know they theywere going to label I-66 as part of the Northwest Freeway, however I have been saying for years that they should add I-66 along US Highway 50 from NE DC to the Maryland Eastern Shore then I-66 continues southeast into Salisbury-Ocean City.
Once again Dyer is babbling about a freeway that was considered for a few years back in the 1950s, and withdrawn in face of massive opposition, and never considered again.
Dyer, can you cite any former at-grade crossings along the above-ground portion of the Red Line, that were not replaced with a bridge or underpass within two blocks of the original location?
4:51 Why are you asking that? What are you trying to infer?
Not "inferring" anything, 12:19 PM. Just showing that Dyer doesn't have the slightest idea of what he is talking about, in 2:21 PM, 2:28 PM and 8:43 PM.
Why not let Dyer answer questions that are put to him?
I read the three posts you reference and they make no mention of "any former at-grade crossings along the above-ground portion of the Red Line, that were not replaced with a bridge or underpass within two blocks of the original location."
So, again, why are you asking that?
@ 2:55 PM - Since your reading comprehension seems to be lacking, here is what Dyer claimed:
Robert Dyer @ 8:43 PM: "The Metro is different from the railroad, because you can't cross subway tracks. There were many more crossings [in Rockville] when it was just the railroad running through the city."
And he was wrong, since the at-grade crossings of the existing railroad through Rockville were replaced by bridges and underpasses, when the Red Line was built next to it. Not only was access across the tracks not impeded, it was made much safer than it had been prior to the construction of the Red Line.
4:51: Absolutely - Rollins Avenue is one, there's another one which I have to look up the name, but it was between the Rockville Metro station and Gude Drive. Those are two that come to mind, but I believe there were more.
3:35: Wrong! See my earlier answer regarding crossings eliminated when Metro came through.
4:35: It was actually still on the table up through the start of the 1970s. The "opposition" you cite was largely manufactured using high-powered law firms and Chiapas-style "white Knight" organizers working for "The Man." It was an expensive campaign against freeways mysteriously operated by high-cost law firms - that ought to get anybody's spider sense tingling.
4:12: I believe it was going to be badged as I-266 crossing into Georgetown. Then there was going to be a split with NW Freeway headed out Wisconsin, and a crosstown freeway heading east toward Connecticut (I think parallel to Tilden Street, but I don't have the map in front of me).
@ 5:41 AM: Absolutely wrong. Rollins Avenue never crossed the tracks. It has always dead-ended on the west side of the tracks. Twinbrook Avenue crosses the tracks on a bridge just one block north of there.
@ 5:47 PM said: "The 'opposition' you cite was largely manufactured using high-powered law firms and Chiapas-style 'white Knight' organizers working for 'The Man.'"
Wow, that one sentence has an entire week's worth of crazy in it. I'll grant that it's slightly better than Willinger's Vatican/Freemasons conspiracy theory, but not much.
Robert Dyer5:47 PM, when you quoted "white knight" are you referring to the poossibility that the KKK was involved in stopping Freeway connections into Maryland?
If you were then I wouldn't be a bit surprised due to the Fact that a lot of the Democrats and Special Interest groups from the 50's and 60's were supporters of the Klan and hated Maryland because they blame Maryland for not following the Southern Good Ol Boy network....
@ 3:52 AM - Go back to bed. You're still drunk.
Anonymous4:59 AM, I'd rather be a drunk than a Maryland hating Virginia tax paying meth head.
3:35PM - There is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. Your question is a blatant attempt to distract from what was actually said with superfluous remarks.
Where does "within a two block radius" come up in the posts you noted. It doesn't.
Difference between reading comprehension and mind reading.
Wasn't the Rollins Ave area a stop on the old railroad or a proposed streetcar stop?? And it's Twinbrook Pkwy, not Avenue. What was it you used to be able to see from the tracks behind Lewis Ave?
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