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| Dedicated bus lane on Richmond Ave. on Staten Island |
Stretches of dedicated lanes were added to Hyland Boulevard and Richmond Avenue, roads similar to those where BRT is being proposed in Montgomery County.
Remember what I've been saying for about four years now about losing 33% of vehicle capacity where lanes are taken from cars for BRT? And how that will make congestion worse, not better?
Now listen to New York State Senator Andrew Lanza (R - Staten Island) report on the "success" of BRT there, in these remarks at a Subcommittee on Transportation hearing on June 20, 2013:
"The City came in and painted. We had so few lanes for traffic, and so we have, you know, so few roads for the number of cars. So in order to facilitate, uh, this new service, uh, we took one lane out of service, we painted it red.
So we told people in cars - who need to be in cars because they don’t have service - that, you know, a third of the road space on the major roads is now not available to them. And by the way, um, buses often go in [one of the remaining automobile lanes] anyway. They need to, it’s not the driver’s fault, because cars are making turns in front of them. So cars can no longer travel in those lanes, and yet buses are still traveling in those other lanes anyway.
We talk about the fact that we save people seven minutes [on express buses]. That’s only if you go end-to-end. The majority of people don’t go end-to-end. We spent millions of dollars painting roads to save seven minutes. We don’t talk about the thousands of people in their cars who have had 10, 20, 30 minutes added to their shuffle because now they’re a choke points, uh, because where there was once a lane for them, it is no longer there. It’s just a parking lot now. And because there’s this red lane, that…and by the way, there’s hardly ever a bus coming through. Hardly ever.
We can’t just talk to the people on the buses. You can find that one person who now has the express stop in front of their house that now saves seven minutes. They’re gonna like it. People stuck in cars, it’s really created a horrific situation."
55 comments:
If you're going to use New York to model your city, please don't ever pick Staten Island. Focus on smart progressive neighborhoods like the Upper East Side or Murray Hill.
Yep, that road in the photo looks really congested. LOL
Are there samples where it does work?
Bus lanes like this only work if we ALSO have dedicated lanes for electric cars. These special lanes should exclude faux electric cars like hybrids and be limited to use by owners of full battery operated vehicles (leaf, tesla).
The special E-car lanes should also be open to the alternate cars of people who own electric cars. There needs to be a special sticker that Tesla owners can affix to their other cars to allow them to use the E-Car lanes on days when circumstances beyond their own doing prevent them from taking the Tesla to accomplish their tasks.
@ 6:11 AM - Open to the Leaf? How declasse. At least they will not be open to the Volt, that would be like allowing the domestics to use the front entrance.
In your myopic, lopsided view of things, one example changes everything.Your chicken little, the sky is falling fear is not based on anything but a see, see, see, I told you so approach to change. The viewpoint given is from a typical, anal retentive Republitard; representative of your philosophy.
If the only support for your argument is quotes from typically insanely corrupt Staten Island Republicans you need to keep looking my friend.
I guess the MoCo officials locked you out of the summit meeting with Metro, thus you can't rant about the outcome.
Here is another quote from Senator Lanza: "People who do not believe in God are hateful and malicious."
"widespread public opposition"
Lol. Patently false.
"Are there samples where it does work?"
Yes, many, many examples (including Boston, Seattle, and Los Angeles), but did you seriously expect Dyer to discuss those?
Even Republicans support BRT as a cost-effective means of transit.
@6:14 we lease a Leaf for our domestic to use. Please do not assume that progressives have no purpose for the Leaf.
BREAKING: One single instance of something I oppose failed! Therefore, what I oppose will fail too!
"This particular priest molested a child, all priests molest children!"
"This particular gun killed a person, all guns kill people!"
"This particular bus lane caused traffic, all bus lanes cause traffic!"
Progressive Bethesdian Family's self-driving Tesla snuck out late one night. The Tesla drove to downtown Bethesda, where Robert Dyer wandering the streets at 3 AM.
The Tesla pulled up along side Dyer, opened the passenger side door, revealing a warm Hungry-Man dinner and a platter of Hostess Ding-Dongs on the seat. Dyer took the bait, got in the car...
...and the Tesla locked its (his/her?) doors in the blink of an eye, peeled out, drove to the American Bridge, veered off the bridge and into the water.
Weeee!!! Glug glug glug
And everyone else lived happily ever after. The End
Epilogue - The insurance company gave the Progressive Bethesdian Family enough money to buy the newest Tesla model (not that they couldn't afford it on their own, but every bit helps), and President Obama and Hans Riemer presented Elon Musk with the Nobel Peace Prize. And the American Legion Bridge was named in loving memory the Selfless Self-Driving Tesla.
"This particular bus lane caused traffic, all bus lanes cause traffic!"
Not even that. It's all the other cars that cause "traffic", not the bus lane or any of the buses using it.
Both VA and DC are opening up new dedicated bus lanes this week. Why is Dyer in favor of falling behind our neighbors? Why does Dyer not use local examples of dedicated bus lanes and instead has to cherry-pick one random guy's opinion about one random bus lane in a completely different region?
There are many more than one failure of BRT systems, & not just in this country. Boston, BTW, is not a true BRT system, it relies on subway for part of its BRT.
Cutting corners, micro/macro changes to the plans significantly change the viability of the system. Is BRT that much more reliable from conventional buses to invest so many funds? Are time savings really enough?
Plus, people don't like to ride buses.
@ 7:16 AM - Is English your mother tongue?
Here is a list of Bus Rapid Transit systems worldwide:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bus_rapid_transit_systems
Boston, BTW, is not a true BRT system, it relies on subway for part of its BRT.
Um, no. It is (currently) two separate BRT lines that end at subway stations.
The classic NIMBY moving of goal posts. Ask for rail they say BRT. Ask for BRT they say just add more/different bus lines. Ask for bus lines they say we need that money for expanding highways... as long as that expansion is not near their immaculately conceived neighborhood. 10, 20, 30 years go by nothing changes.
6:55 AM I doubt Reimer will be awarding Musk a prize. Reimer and other clueless folks like Dan Reed are adamant that autonomous vehicles are just science fiction and that Barwood and buses are the future.
Meanwhile, you can buy a Tesla today with Musk's Autopilot system.
Reimer is fighting the future.
Boston is NOT a true BRT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_%28MBTA%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit_creep
6:11, "There needs to be a special sticker that Tesla owners can affix to their other cars to allow them to use the E-Car lanes on days when circumstances beyond their own doing prevent them from taking the Tesla to accomplish their tasks."
Beyond insufferable. How about affixing a sticker to your forehead, or better yet, a TESLA OWNER tattoo? This will allow you immediate access to the 10 or fewer items at Whole Foods even when you have 30 items. It will allow you to go to the front of any line as well. Why should you be inconvenienced after all, you need to accomplish your tasks. And there should be a special temporary tattoo for your Au Pair so they aren't delayed.
Memo, just because you own a Tesla doesn't mean you should get to be in HOV lanes in another, emissions spewing vehicle. You'll just have to be in traffic with the rest of the riff-raff.
@6:55 is comedy gold, but anyway:
I absolutely see Dyer's point here. Do we really need to take one of the 3 travel lanes on Rockville Pike, to run a bus that will be driving in parallel to the Red Line train that's 50 feet away?
I never thought of the right-turning car situation -- that will definitely make it worse, especially on Rockville Pike where there are lots of malls and businesses every few feet.
Where BRT _can_ work is on a highway where a new lane is added. There aren't many turn-offs, and it's not reducing existing capacity. Also the buses aren't making stops on the highway so it speeds them to their destination. I believe some buses in Virginia are authorized to use the shoulder on I-66 during traffic jams for example?
@ 7:34 AM - No one has called autonomous cars "science fiction". They already exist.
What is science fiction, is the notion that autonomous cars will magically eliminate traffic.
No one has said "Barwood is the future".
A conversation with you would be so much easier if you didn't keep hearing things that have never been said.
And the Councilman's name is Riemer, not "Reimer".
Oh and if you want to see the effect of taking a lane away from 355, go look at Wisconsin Avenue at the evening rush, over by the Bradley Boulevard intersection. Currently the right-most lane (a parking lane which becomes a travel lane during rush hour) is blocked off for utility work. It's a mess of traffic -- I was in it myself yesterday.
"[A] TESLA OWNER tattoo [that] will allow you immediate access to the 10 or fewer items [lines] at Whole Foods even when you have 30 items."
I have stars in my eyes right now.
Pardon me for believing that people who are part of the solution and not part of the problem deserve some sort of tangible recognition for their selfless use of clean cars.
Would honestly prefer that Tesla ownership grant me access to faster lanes at Balduccis, however. I do not find the Whole Foods product line to be comparable in terms of quality.
8;13 "recognition for their selfless use of clean cars"
Do you want a medal or a monument? You do realize that the production of those lithium ion batteries in the Tesla have as much environmental impact as a regular car to say nothing of the carbon footprint of the power source being used? So pat yourself on the back that no one can kill themselves in your garage though tailpipe emissions (though your Tesla's battery may explode during charging so you still might get lucky), but saying you should get recognition for driving your LR4 in the HOV lane instead of your Tesla is absurd.
According to this blog we should be aiming to be more like NoVA and DC.
NoVA and DC are opening bus lanes this month
That's a good point. Can Dyer explain what he means that bus lanes won't work in Montgomery County but NoVa and DC are doing it right or better?
I'm not for or against, just trying to better understand his sometimes conflicting positions. Thanks!
11:14 first consider which routes in DC and VA and how they compare.
For instance. Does 16th street losing a lane compare to Wisconsin Ave/Rockville Pike?
If anything it's probably worse. IIRC 16th St. NW has fewer lanes than MD 355.
@12:08
Uhm yes. 16th is DC's main north-south commuter artery. Thousands of Mont. Co. residents use it daily to get downtown.
From the Post:
D.C. transportation officials say they hope to use the Georgia Avenue pilot as testing ground for larger future projects. DDOT also is planning to install rush-hour bus lanes along 16th Street NW.
Why attack the poster who gives you information?
What the hell is all this talk about friggin electric cars? Those charging stations are going to be rusty overgrown weed and snake infested eyesores...Holton Arms soccer Moms don't give a damn about the price of gas or their carbon footprint! Their motto is the bigger the better!
@ 2:17 PM - Geritol is one hell of a drug.
We all know how this is going to play out...
Berliner will make some assanine statement like, " I live in a BRT zone on the Pike and its the greatest thing, Westbard residents will learn to like it as well" (Even though we all know Westbard Avenue and River Road will go from bad to impassable. ) Hurry up and schedule a council meeting so we can vote on this garbage plan.
Plenty of room to widen River Road in Westbard for BRT once you tear down those old crappy gas stations and convenience stores.
"assanine"
Didn't you notice that squiggly red line under that word when you typed it? That word does not exist in the English language.
Excellent, Robert. Thank you for pointing this out. Totally agree with you.
I know how traffic stalls and stalls when a lane is taken out of use for construction. Similar situation here. What were these so-called professional traffic planners thinking?
Last comment Einstein at 3:42 and I'm very interested in your answer really.
Once you tear down all the convenient gas stations, where are the 20, 000 cars going to fuel up? State Highways has documented 17, 000 cars traveling past River and Willard daily.
Thank You for your quick response!
Those five gas stations occupy a ridiculous amount of land for the amount of gas-pumping customers that they actually serve. They can easily be consolidated. And demand for gasoline will continue to drop as more hybrids and electric cars come on the scene.
6:30: You obviously missed the public testimony at every meeting and hearing on the topic of BRT. The record of overwhelming opposition is clear.
No poll with a legitimate sample size has ever shown mass support for BRT.
You're right about one thing - Bob Ehrlich was the biggest proponent of BRT in Maryland, and during his administration, most of the same Council who now say BRT is essential opposed him on it!
ICC, BRT, casinos...
It's Bob Ehrlich's world; Democrats just run it.
6:45: Wrong! This is an apples to apples comparison of six lane suburban commuter corridors, with the same low transit ridership.
In contrast, the County political cartel makes ridiculous comparisons between MoCo and urban places like Portland and Cleveland. Demographically, economically, etc.those places have little in common with us.
5:32
I agree with you that the 7 gas stations in Westbard are all old (since early 1970's incredibly) and run-down looking. Perhaps having 2 or 3 modern stations with multiple pump stations would be widely accepted by everyone in Westbard.
I dispute the fact that you feel 20, 000 cars are going to somehow magically decrease with the "hybrids" and "electric" cars. Do you really believe that statement of yours? Last night I checked the base price of a Tesla S (not because I wanted one) which was $101, 500 !!!
Also, the range of many of these vehicles can be quite limited before you need to find a charging station for several hours. What a hassle !!! Crazy expensive too even for the majority of Westbarders.
Dyer:
"6:45: Wrong! This is an apples to apples comparison of six lane suburban commuter corridors, with the same low transit ridership."
I'm not 6:45, but this is completely untrue. Montgomery County has a much higher transit ridership than most cities, including Portland (which doesn't even have BRT) and Cleveland.
"In contrast, the County political cartel makes ridiculous comparisons between MoCo and urban places like Portland and Cleveland. Demographically, economically, etc.those places have little in common with us."
In terms of demographics/economics do you mean that Mont. Co. is one of the wealthiest counties in the country and has a thriving economy, while Cleveland's is "moribund" (a term you love so much, but don't actually understand it's meaning).
Transit ridership share according to the Census Bureau:
Cleveland - 10.5%
Portland - 9.4%
Montgomery County MD - 15.5%
These are publicly available facts not the misguided opinion and random anecdotes that most arguments on this blog are based on.
I am 6:45, and thank you 6:54 for those facts.
6:54: The percentage of people using transit along the vast majority of the BRT corridors is far below 15.5%. You've got to extract the people in the urban centers where the BRT lines dead-end, and you'll find you're more comparable to Staten Island than Manhattan.
6:54AM - Please explain how we don't understand the meaning of MORIBUND.
From Merriam-Webster I see it as "being in a state of inactivity or obsolescence." Even using the noun, moribundity seems correct.
Examples:
an actor who is trying to revive his moribund career
The peace talks are moribund.
How is moribund being used incorrectly?
@ 6:18 PM - I'm @ 5:32 PM responding to your comment. I wasn't suggesting that the move to hybrids and electric vehicles was going to make traffic disappear - I think that you may have me confused with the self-driving/autonomous car folks. I was just saying that the business for the 5 gas stations (after the 2 Citgo stations on Westbard Avenue are gone) will slowly dry up.
@ 7:52 AM - "Moribund" is being used correctly by @ 6:52 AM, incorrectly by Dyer. Montgomery County's economy most certainly is NOT in "a state of inactivity or obsolescence".
Moribund - "stagnant; without force or vitality"
Synonyms = declining, weak, waning, standing still, stagnant, stagnating, on the way out, at a standstill, obsolescent, on its last legs, forceless
It's a perfectly fine word, being used properly. Declining, weak, waning - they fit.
Ok so this should be an easy answer. Where can we find economic growth numbers for Montgomery County? Are they going up, down, or level?
Hasn't that (Economic Development) been outsourced to a private company or privatized or something?
Can't be all that bad, it's trending. http://tinyurl.com/ha88dgl
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