About a year after the Chevy Chase Land Company received approval for a
reimagining of its Collection at Chevy Chase shopping center from Montgomery County, work is underway. Reeling from the closures of its highest-end stores as the rich flee high-tax Montgomery County for Loudoun and Howard Counties and the District, they are repositioning the center as a place to spend time in a more-inviting outdoor setting.
In addition to new public art and improved parks and plazas, the view into the Friendship Heights property from Wisconsin Avenue will be improved. The Collection is located at 5471 Wisconsin Avenue.
73 comments:
"rich flee high-tax Montgomery County for Loudoun and Howard Counties and the District"
This statement makes no sense. The stores all went to CityCenter in DC, which has higher taxes than Montgomery County. Please let me know where in Loudoun County you can find Gucci, Tiffany, and Cartier.
Could you for once actually report makes instead of just making stuff up.
Aren't taxes higher in DC than MoCo?
Montgomery County is gradually transforming into an extension of Prince Georges County as the wealthy move into DC and across the river. The MoCo of the future will be more middle class and diverse, which is exactly what elected officials and voters have wanted.
@ 7:36
1. Montgomery County is already more diverse than Prince George's County, which is in fact becoming more diverse itself especially in the north
2. The county may be home to more middle-income residents, but the wealthy aren't going anywhere judging from all of the new multi-million condos in Bethesda. Same thing is happening in Fairfax County.
This has nothing to do with residents fleeing Montgomery County and everything to do with the massive CityCenterDC development. When they only have 1 or 2 retail presences in the area, it makes much more sense for these luxury retailers to be located in downtown DC where they can draw not only Montgomery County residents (some who work downtown), but DC and VA residents.
But sure, blame it on taxes and be disingenuous.
Nate - do you think City Center in downtown DC is more accessible to McLean, Great Falls, Upper NW DC and Potomac than Chevy Chase (or Tysons)? It's a pain to get there for most.
Dyer is chronicling this rapidly changing area for us.
Strange. Bethesda Mag. hasn't updated this comparison.
http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Magazine/July-August-2009/Montgomery-County-vs-Fairfax-County/
Well if you're in McLean or Great Falls, you're probably just going to the outposts in Tysons (I know not all are there, and some are in department stores). Yeah its not as easy to get to from Upper NW DC or Potomac as being in Chevy Chase, but these luxury stores clearly made the decision its better for them to be more centrally located in DC and near downtown workers, tourists, etc. Whether or not its a pain to get to, its not because wealthy residents fled Montgomery county.
There was a time when Chevy Chase, MD was the center of wealth in the DMV - reasonably close to Georgetown, Bethesda, Potomac, McLean - but the wealth in the DMV has moved into DC and across the river. City Center is indeed closer for those in Alexandria, Arlington and downtown DC itself. Makes perfect sense to focus on Downtown DC and Tysons - Chevy Chase moved from the core to the fringe.
8:29: Nate, you are partly correct. But the fact is that the people have also moved with the money. In D.C., they are at CityCenterDC and other hip enclaves in luxury apartments, as well as the traditional NW and Georgetown neighborhoods. If it was just retail location strategy, Montgomery County wouldn't have fallen behind Loudoun and Howard in wealth. It's embarrassing.
8:21: How many of those condos are occupied, and how many are investors renting them out? The luxury rental apartments are being filled with corporate/government/contractor housing, often at a rent lower than being advertised to you and me. If the wealth hadn't left, we wouldn't be behind Loudoun and Howard in wealth right now.
7:28: Taxes are artificially high in D.C. as well, but are still less than in Montgomery County in total.
7:19: D.C. does not have higher taxes than MoCo. That's a lie.
9:04: "moved from the core to the fringe" - - kind of like the shift on the County Council over the last couple of decades. Not only on the fringe ideologically, but they've put us on the fringe of economic development in the region, merely a spectator as other jurisdictions collect all the high-wage private sector jobs. Not a single major corporate HQ has relocated here in two decades. Sad!
Tysons, especially the Galleria, is the center of luxury retail in the DMV and has been for some time. Chevy Chase WAS the outpost for some luxury brands and that seems to be shifting to City Center - but the retail space is very limited in comparison to Tysons Galleria.
I thought galleria was struggling as well?
Robert if no one is living in Montgomery County then how come you say it’s becoming a bedroom community?
Why are you incapable of just writing a blog post without injected some dumb, unfounded garbage, Robert? Do you have some sort of mental condition?
9:44: My report is fully backed up by the public records. We are now behind Loudoun and Howard Counties in wealth. Period. Facts. Look it up. The rich are exiting.
9:23: Huh? I said the *rich* are leaving. They're being replaced by thousands of low-income folks the Council is bringing in intentionally for political reasons, which is why we have a structural deficit and are heading toward ultimate bankruptcy if we don't change course.
In reality, it's about shopping not being what it used to be. Nate is 100% correct in his assessment.
Out with poor folks saith Dyer.
"D.C. does not have higher taxes than MoCo. That's a lie."
DC max income tax rate = 8.95%
Montgomery County max income tax = 3.2% (added to 5.75% for MD inc tax)
DC residential property tax = 8.5%
Montgomery County property tax = 7.5% (added to 1.1% MD re tax)
DC restaurant tax = 10%
Montgomery County restaurant tax = 6%
So, yes it would be pretty stupid to move to DC solely for tax purposes. Hope you don't give out financial advice.
Said Dyer: "If the wealth hadn't left, we wouldn't be behind Loudoun and Howard in wealth right now."
No, it's because there are more middle income people are moving here, slowing median/mean hh income growth, as stated by 8:21. It's simple math. Fairfax has fallen behind Loudoun too, I suppose the rich leaving there as well?
Said Dyer: "Period. Facts. Look it up. The rich are exiting."
Nonsense. You post so many blatant lies that anyone with an elementary school education could easily spot them, and to prove my point:
2010 median income = $93,373
2011 median income = $95,660
2012 median income = $96,958
2013 median income = $98,221
2014 median income = $98,704
2015 median income = $99,435
2010 Households making more than $200,000 = 54,036
2011 Households making more than $200,000 = 57,936
2012 Households making more than $200,000 = 60,431
2013 Households making more than $200,000 = 62,377
2014 Households making more than $200,000 = 64,182
2015 Households making more than $200,000 = 66,108
SOURCE: US Census Bureau
I thought Dyer always said that development was solely for the purpose of increasing revenue for the Montgomery County treasury, er, MoCo Cartel Slush Fund.
How can this be done if we are replacing rich people with poor people?
This is idiocy. The move is because of City Center and the fact that, like just about every other part of the country, there has been a re-invigoration of shopping and dining in downtown DC. This move allows those stores to sell to out of town visitors as well. To suggest that those shops left because MoCo/NW DC (which surely was half their market) don't have enough rich people AND to suggest that those rich people left because they didn't want to pay taxes is just made up out of nothing.
Nobody has ever called Dyer a financial expert, but he is an excellent food taster.
"How many of those condos are occupied, and how many are investors renting them out?
Wow, this is exceedlingly dumb, even by your own very low standards, Dyer. A condo that is occupied by a renter is still occupied.
"The luxury rental apartments are being filled with corporate/government/contractor housing, often at a rent lower than being advertised to you and me."
Source?
"We are now behind Loudoun and Howard Counties in wealth. Period. Facts. Look it up. The rich are exiting."
That's a complete fucking lie, Robert. Loudoun and Howard are almost exclusively large single-family homes (like MoCo of the past). Now, MoCo has a much wider range of home sizes and incomes. I - a yuppie govt contractor pulling in $80K/year and living in a downtown Bethesda condo - bring down MoCo's avg household income ($100K+). People like me pulling down the average doesn't mean MoCo is suddenly worse than Loudoun and it doesn't mean millionaires living a few blocks over in single-family houses have fled. Do you understand that, Robert?
Robert, have you ever worked for a Fortune 500 company? If not, than what special knowledge or skills gained from your experience as a recording artist and administrative assistant would you use to bring more Fortune 500 company headquarters to our county?
1:44pm and mr.reamers night life economy experience was...???
There is an abortion clinic right across the street in 5530.
1:42: Unlike your conjecture, I have actual statistics proving MoCo is behind Loudoun, Howard AND Fairfax -and more!
https://dc.curbed.com/2017/7/19/15999356/richest-wealthiest-counties-virginia-maryland
1:21: Yes, occupied, but not by a rich person. We're talking about the flight of the rich here. How do I know who is in the new buildings? From being in them and talking to the new residents. Very few are on the Forbes list, folks. Hence, it's virtually impossible that they are paying the advertised rents. The tab is being picked up by corporate or government.
...at a discount rate to the corporation or government below the advertised rent.
The ones you talked to??? No offense Robert why does anyone that has a real job let alone FOrtune 500 company want to stop to talk to the neighborhood retard about his conspiracy theories about the moco cartel, think about it dufus
1) "How do I know who is in the new buildings? From being in them and talking to the new residents."
2) "Very few are on the Forbes list, folks."
3) "Hence, it's virtually impossible that they are paying the advertised rents."
4) "The tab is being picked up by corporate or government at a discount rate to the corporation or government below the advertised rent."
What an incredible daisy-chain of unwarranted assumptions and demented speculation. Hint to Dyer - the "Forbes 400" list excludes 324,999,600 Americans.
"How do I know who is in the new buildings? From being in them and talking to the new residents. Very few are on the Forbes list, folks. Hence, it's virtually impossible that they are paying the advertised rents."
Sounds like you didn't bother to ask them how much they are paying. That would have been a good start, you know.
So that means you EXPECTED Fortune 400 people to be there? Seriously? Why?
This drivel is why Google News won't touch you, Dyer. Your opinion isn't news, much less fact. For every decent, solid news piece you publish, you throw out two or three that are just the rants of someone sounding more and more unhinged. Decide what you want to be--news or opinion?
5:48: No "opinion," old sport: Forbes magazine confirms MoCo is far behind Loudoun, Howard, and even Fairfax in wealth. This is not in dispute in any way. Period.
5:05: You seem to be unable to understand advanced use of language. Is English your first language? I referred to Fortune list to make the point that there are very few billionaires living in the new condos in downtown Bethesda. Many of the units are empty altogether. The $10.4 Billion penthouse at The Lauren remains unsold.
4:56: If i know their position and employer, it's not hard to guess the general range of their salary. In most cases, $2400-3000 a month is not a viable rent for them unless they're getting a discount through a third-party.
12:21: Voters are glad to know that Hans Riemer's supporters use the "r"-word and find disability to be something to mock non-disabled people with. They'll remember that on Election Day 2018.
Would you really expect billionaires to be living in a condo in downtown Bethesda? Some of the recent condos are nice and all, but not that nice.
Dyer wrote: "...$10.4 Billion penthouse at The Lauren remains unsold."
Likely because there is no $10.4 Billion penthouse at the Lauren.
6:54: I'm not the one who said it - the troll did. And the troll was wrong. I am correct, and backed up by Forbes magazine.
6:56: No kidding. Again, is English your first language? You seem to miss all use of language beyond the most basic - sarcasm, exaggeration, etc.
5:05 here. I see that you deleted your illiterate comment that my post referenced.
Just so you could accuse me of being "unable to understand advanced use of language."
More of your childish behavior.
Bully me all you want. It seems to make you feel better, it shows the world how treat people and, most importantly, it makes no difference to me.
I'd have to respect your opinion to be offended by it.
Cue the sheepshills...we all know what usually comes next.
"If i [sic] know their position and employer, it's not hard to guess the general range of their salary."
What are yours, Robert? How are you able to afford to live in Bethesda?
Dyer says: "If i know their position and employer, it's not hard to guess the general range of their salary. In most cases, $2400-3000 a month is not a viable rent for them unless they're getting a discount through a third-party."
You should know better than that. They have FAMILY MONEY pays/helps out.
You know, just like you do.
Dyer said: "Yes, [those condos are] occupied, but not by a rich person. We're talking about the flight of the rich here. How do I know who is in the new buildings? From being in them and talking to the new residents. Very few are on the Forbes list, folks."
Anonymous @ 5:05 AM said: "So that means you EXPECTED [Forbes] 400 people to be there? Seriously? Why?"
Dyer: "I referred to Fortune list to make the point that there are very few billionaires living in the new condos in downtown Bethesda."
Nate said: "Would you really expect billionaires to be living in a condo in downtown Bethesda?"
Dyer said: "I'm not the one who said it - the troll did. And the troll was wrong. I am correct, and backed up by Forbes magazine."
Dyer, you are simply incapable of engaging in a coherent conversation, let alone an intelligent debate.
7:25: You know nothing of my finances. You can speculate, but you just sound like a moron at that point.
As far as this "family money," please tell us where we can find this unlimited, free cash supply called "family money" that will provide free rent at The Bainbridge and Flats. Do tell.
7:14: I didn't delete any of my own comments. You're shooting in all directions, but hitting everything but the target.
7:31: You sound like an idiot - anyone reading your comment will see in the first sentence that I was responding to the troll who claimed the rich were moving into luxury residential buildings here. In fact, they are fleeing to Loundoun and Howard counties. Your comment simply proves I was correct.
The Forbes 400 are, by definition, the richest 400 of out of a total 325 million Americans. The minimum net worth is $2 billion.
$2,000 a month to rent a new apartment, or $700,000 to $1 million to buy a new condo is a lot of money, but you don't have to be a billionaire to afford it. There is a mean between your two extremes.
The penthouse at the Lauren is a freakish outlier, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Here is a reasonable task for an aspiring journalist such as yourself - what are the vacancy rates at the new apartments and condos that have been delivered in the past 5 years? What are the actual rents paid by tenants in the new apartment buildings and investor-owned units at the new condos?
Hey, Dyer - it is possible to be "rich" or "wealthy" and not be a billionaire. Dunce.
Yeah, I CAN speculate. No need to call me names.
WTF? I live on family money. There's no stigma about it. If you do, fine. If you don't, fine. Why is it an issue for you?
Unless you're embarrassed by it.
Dyer, your problem here is that you keep putting words in people's mouths, saying things that no one ever actually said. In this case, one or more commenters said that "the rich" or "the wealthy" were moving into the new apartments and condos in Bethesda. You kept claiming that they said "billionaires" or those on the "Forbes 400 list" (minimum $2 billion net worth) were moving into the new apartments and condos which is not what they said at all. Another one of your silly straw men.
Robert uses what is known as "Name-calling propaganda."
Method
1) Call them names
Laugh at what targeted others say. Criticize their lack of Values. Denounce their ideals. Turn around their words and actions, taking them out of context and amplifying them to drown out any denial (making denial seem like admission of guilt). Use other double-binds such that whatever they say or do only mires them more deeply.
Find a name that trivializes them and use it at every opportunity, with a smirk on your face and the laughter of your supporters.
2) Show up opponents
Make your opponents appear stupid, immoral or otherwise undesirable. Besmirch their untarnished reputation, holding it down in the mud, rubbing it in with the knowledge that much of the mud will stick. Be careful about the person retaliating. As necessary, ensure they are isolated and disempowered first.
3) Make an example of someone
Take a random person and denigrate them. Show that you can and will do this to any opponents.
You can do it to an apparently strong person, to demonstrate that you are not afraid and will take on and defeat even the powerful. You can do it to a weak person, to show that nobody is safe from your ire. You can do it to an ordinary, guy-next-door person, to show that 'people like you' are not safe either.
Example
My opponent is a flip-flop man who cannot make up his mind. He changes mind with the breeze! How could anyone follow such a weak-willed flip-flopper?
Hmmm... looks like Robert deleted the comment about his very successful father.
Here is a list of 9 hallmarks of trolling:
1) Gish Galloping or creating straw men instead of responding to the points a target makes.
2) Insisting they know what a target really means instead of taking responses at face value.
3)Posing an endless series of questions to create more grist for trolling.
4) A seeming inability to acknowledge that other people may have different, valid opinions.
5) Attempts to score points with a perceived audience rather than engage in direct dialogue.
6) Taking a target’s statements out of context by twisting single words and short phrases.
7) Failing to cite sources or citing sources that don’t back up claims.
8) Focusing on criticism and complaints to the exclusion of solutions.
9) Quickly devolving into ad hominem arguments.
Dyer, Dyer, Dyer, Dyer, Dyer, Dyer, Dyer, Dyer and Dyer.
Do not expose the Dyer behind the curtain !!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, so as I'm typing this, i had to really, really resist the urge to leave out "the curtain"
It would have been funnier without it.
8:02/8:16: I never said they had to be billionaires. You said the rich were moving into these new buildings. I disputed that fact. The Forbes data, as well as my first-hand conversations with actual building residents, back up my position.
8:09: There's nothing embarrassing about living on family money. What's embarrassing is claiming that I am with no evidence whatsoever, and knowing zero about my financial situation.
8:30: Argle bargle.
9:02: Says the troll who has a photo of me on the nightstand next to his bed.
9:12 - There you go again, silly boy, no matter how many times you wish for it to be true, it won't be. My nightstand picture will always be the hubby and the kids.
Who's on YOUR nightstand?
No, Dyer. You said "billionaires" and "Forbes 400". You said those specifically. You were the first one to day those. You twisted the meaning of what others said, beyond comprehension.
You don't have to be on the Forbes 400 (minimum $2 billion net worth) or a mere billionaire to be rich.
$100 million is definitely "rich". $10 is certainly "rich".
As far as I know, having as little as $1 million still counts as "rich" these days.
9:30: I never stated they had to be billionaires, I said,
"Yes, occupied, but not by a rich person. We're talking about the flight of the rich here. How do I know who is in the new buildings? From being in them and talking to the new residents. Very few are on the Forbes list, folks."
"Rich person."
Not billionaire.
If English was your first language, you would recognize that the final remark about the Forbes list is simply making a colorful point. Your reading level appears to be 3rd grade at best if you don't get that.
Very few of the people in the new buildings, very few, contrary to your claim, are rich by any definition. Not even $1 million, much less $100 million.
"Very few are on the Forbes list"
"If English was your first language, you would recognize that the final remark about the Forbes list is simply making a colorful point."
"Is English your first language? You seem to miss all use of language beyond the most basic - sarcasm, exaggeration, etc."
Dyer - if you dropped the "colorful points", sarcasm, exaggeration, and outright straw men, you might find it much easier to engage in intelligent debate.
"Very few of the people in the new buildings, very few, contrary to your claim, are rich by any definition. Not even $1 million"
Ha ha... now you're just backtracking pathetically, Dyer.
"How do I know who is in the new buildings? From being in them and talking to the new residents."
Um... how many residents? Which buildings? Did you ask them what their income or net worth was? Did you ask them how much they actually paid for the condo, or paid in rent for the apartment?
Dyer,
Why are you always insulting people whose 1st language isn't English? You touting your bigotry is unsavory.
What do "colorful points, sarcasm, exaggeration" have to do with the English language? They are universal concepts.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Dyer wrote: "...$10.4 Billion penthouse at The Lauren remains unsold."
Likely because there is no $10.4 Billion penthouse at the Lauren."
Dyer replies:
"No kidding. Again, is English your first language? You seem to miss all use of language beyond the most basic - sarcasm, exaggeration, etc."
The Lauren penthouse is offered at 10.4 Million, NOT Billion.
Bobbie, there is a difference between a Billion dollars and a Million dollars. No kidding.
While I have no particular issue with the English Language, I have a particular issue with Dyer-ese. One is I guess supposed to simply skip over factual errors, exaggerated claims, unsupported conjectures, wild-ass guesses, bizarre conspiracies, frequent cases of innumeracy, and fraudulent assertions of fact that constitute this blog.
That in your mind would make one literate in English.
Just an absolutely bizarre assertion to make.
7:39: The Lauren penthouse remains unsold. Your beloved rich are fleeing to Loudoun and Howard counties.
Or maybe the rich don't think that the penthouse is worth $10 million.
Who's the one lamenting the loss of the rich, obsessively talking about it over and over and over and over? That would be Robert Dyer.
ONE ridiculously overpriced penthouse. Out of THOUSANDS of new apartments and condos in a one square mile area.
Try to have some sense of perspective.
"How do I know who is in the new buildings? From being in them and talking to the new residents. Very few are on the Forbes list, folks."
Robert Dyer's are trust-fund hobos, just like him.
Maryland has been the #1 state in the country in terms of millionaires per capita for the last six years. Montgomery County is the top county for millionaires in Maryland. I don't think MD would be a solid #1 (last year VA was #8 and DC was #9) for so long if the rich really were fleeing MoCo.
#FakeNews #DyerTheLiar
McDonald's should move into that penthouse. That would be killing two birds with one stone!
10:57 PM...10:59 PM (Dyer Time)
My God, Robert...what are you doing up at 2 AM on a weeknight?
Who moved to Loudon and Howard?
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