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Monday, October 24, 2022
Armed carjacking in White Flint
Montgomery County police responded to a report of an armed carjacking in the White Flint area early yesterday morning, October 23, 2022. The carjacking was reported in a parking garage in the 11500 block of Rockville Pike at 2:16 AM Sunday.
19 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Of course there was.
If you're not seriously considering getting a Maryland Wear and Carry Permit, you should be.
Wouldn't be a complete MoCo weekend without having an armed carjacking follow an armed robbery.
Armed Robbery at the Apple Store on Bethesda Row on Saturday evening: https://twitter.com/realtimenews10/status/1583950217720000512
"ARMED ROBBERY: Apple Store 4800 Bl. of Bethesda Ave. Bethesda, MD. Mont Co. PD on scene investigating an armed robbery with an individual walking into the store armed with a Gold Glock with an extended mag taken 3 Mac Computers."
If they catch and charge the perpetrator, using the extended magazine in the commission of a crime is an additional offense. Of course, that law doesn't actually prevent the crime from occurring in the first place. It's just a feel good measure that doesn't do anything.
Robert, There was also an armed robbery Saturday evening inside the Apple Store. Imagine the kids, families, etc who were in the store getting their iPhone accessories, etc and seeing the store robbed at gun point. And people have an issue with a good guy with a gun. These people need to taste a few bullets. Cops are blocks away but way too late to do anything about this. This is totally insane. Elrich will be reelected. Remember voters, that's 4 more long years. It will get worse before it gets better. Elect Sully Reardon and better will come much sooner.
@6:30 AM A good guy with a gun aiming for a bad guy with a gun could do some serious damage to innocent bystanders just to make himself a hero. Not worth the collateral damage IMHO. You need to lower your imaginative ifs and buts.
I don't see anything (yet) on the Bethesda-magazine-related blog about this. But I don't think anyone wants to see a shootout inside the Apple store, or any other store. Does legitimate/legal "self-defense" cover someone's use of a gun to protect someone else (the Apple cashier, probably trained as matter of policy just to hand over the goods, precisely to prevent a shootout), that he or she isn't standing right next to?
That's actually a valid question. In many states, absolutely you can use deadly force to stop a threat. In MD, who knows. If someone in a church service is carrying a firearm, you are saying that you would not want him to use it to stop the likely carnage of men, women, children and religious in the church? Think about that. Good guy with a gun is better than good guy, no gun against bad guy with at least one gun if that makes sense.
5:54 - Oh, it's about to get much, much worse. MD will be controlled in Annapolis by a Far Leftie, Wes Moore and MoCo will continue it's precipitous decline under Elrich. It would be a story worthy of national attention if a black man (Dem) became the first person of color to lead MD and at the same time, a black man (Republican) upset Marc Elrich. Sadly though, there's not a snowball's chance the latter will occur. In a word, screwed.
@2:28 PM: I have a Maryland Wear & Carry Permit (in addition to permits for several other states) and I regularly conceal carry in Bethesda. I practice for the situation where I am either confronted by or in proximity to someone who is using a gun in the commission in a crime. It's a very real possibility these days, but it isn't something I seek out, and I don't ever do it to be a hero. I carry to protect threats to my life or to my loved ones if I'm out with them. A couple things are of paramount importance when carrying a firearm: You never draw on a drawn gun already pointed in your direction; You watch your target background when making a shot. Collateral damage is certainly a possibility, but that's where practice and good judgment comes into play to reduce the likelihood of it. You can't expect perfect on this.
It can't just be a good guy with a gun. It needs to be a competent good guy with a gun who's put in the training time to be proficient, to be safe and to use good judgment. Honestly, I get over to the range to practice more often than most police officers do. I also probably go through more practice ammo than your average police officer uses as well. Both of these things are true for a lot of responsible and competent gun owners. Not all of them, but for a lot of them. That doesn't mean I pretend to be a police officer or think I can stand in for one. That's not my job and that's not why I carry a concealed firearm. If I'm in a position to call the police to come, that's what I do before ever drawing my firearm. Hopefully they arrive to resolve the situation without me ever having to draw my firearm. I definitely could have been in the Apple Store at the time this occurred, but I would have used good judgment and my knowledge of the applicable Maryland Law(s) for what to do in the situation. If there was a legitimate deadly threat to my life or to someone in my close proximity, and I had no ability to retreat safely, I would be fully justified in using deadly force on the individual with the gun under Maryland Law.
@2:46 PM: I don't expect you will see anything in that rag's blog other than a quiet mention in the weekly crime report, which all of their readers apparently ignore when they go to the polls. I don't want to have a shootout in the Apple Store either, but I've accepted MoCo reality for what it is. Stuff like this is happening now. If someone is brandishing a firearm in a threatening matter in proximity to me and there's a deadly threat to my life from that from which I cannot safely retreat, I will safely draw my firearm and fire.
That's a good question, and the best source for an answer on that is the Maryland Criminal Pattern Jury Instructions. Let's start with basic self-defense under MD Law:
Self-defense (MPJI-Cr 5:07) Self-defense is a defense, and the defendant must be found not guilty if all of the following three factors are present: 1) The defendant actually believed that were in immediate and imminent danger of bodily harm. 2) The defendant's belief was reasonable. 3) The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend in light of the threatened or actual harm.
How this applies to Deadly Force: "Deadly-force is that amount of force reasonably calculated to cause death or serious bodily harm. If the defendant is found to have used deadly-force, it must be decided whether the use of deadly-force was reasonable. Deadly-force is reasonable if the defendant actually had a reasonable belief that the aggressor's force was or would be deadly and that the defendant needed a deadly-force response."
Also, Maryland is a "Duty to Retreat" State, so I have a Duty to Retreat if it can be done safely: "In addition, before using deadly-force, the defendant is required to make all reasonable effort to retreat. The defendant does not have to retreat if the defendant was in home, retreat was unsafe, the avenue of retreat was unknown to the defendant, the defendant was being robbed, the defendant was lawfully arresting the victim. If the defendant was found to have not used deadly-force, then the defendant had no duty to retreat."
As to your question about "Defense of Others", such as the Apple Store Employees: Defense of Others (MPJI-Cr 5:01) Defense of others is a defense, and the defendant must be found not guilty if all of the following four factors are present: 1) The defendant actually believed that the person defended was in immediate and imminent danger of bodily harm. 2) The defendant's belief was reasonable. 3) The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend the person defended in light of the threatened or actual force. 4) The defendant's purpose in using force was to aid the person defended.
So everything is pretty fact-dependent given the above Jury Instructions. The obligation of the "Duty to Retreat" will interplay with engaging in the "Defense of Others" in this case. If it's happening in close proximity to me without giving me a safe avenue of retreat, I could be justified in using deadly force. If it's not in proximity to me, it may not be as justified because I could have retreated safely. Of course, this assumes that the MoCo prosecutor even brings charges on me in the first place, which may not be a good look for them, not that they seem to care anymore with their revolving door of criminals they let out.
@6:22 AM: Indeed, it's a very good question. As I mentioned in my response to 2:46 PM, deadly force for self-defense is permissible in MD if it was reasonable under the circumstances: The individual actually had a reasonable belief that the aggressor's force was or would be deadly and the individual needed a deadly-force response. Also, before using deadly-force, the individual is required to make all reasonable and safe efforts to retreat. This Duty to Retreat doesn't apply if in a home, if retreating would put them in danger, if the path of retreat is unknown, or if they were being robbed at the time.
The church question is a whole different situation, especially if you think that the original person with the gun is likely/planning to shoot one or more people no matter what. Someone trying to rob the Apple store probably (not always) mostly wants just to get the cash and goods, and to get out safe and with minimum public attention.
@8:39 AM: Nothing says minimum attention like carrying a gold Glock with an extended magazine while robbing an Apple Store on a Saturday early-evening on Bethesda Row.
19 comments:
Of course there was.
If you're not seriously considering getting a Maryland Wear and Carry Permit, you should be.
Wouldn't be a complete MoCo weekend without having an armed carjacking follow an armed robbery.
Armed Robbery at the Apple Store on Bethesda Row on Saturday evening: https://twitter.com/realtimenews10/status/1583950217720000512
"ARMED ROBBERY: Apple Store 4800 Bl. of Bethesda Ave. Bethesda, MD. Mont Co. PD on scene investigating an armed robbery with an individual walking into the store armed with a Gold Glock with an extended mag taken 3 Mac Computers."
If they catch and charge the perpetrator, using the extended magazine in the commission of a crime is an additional offense. Of course, that law doesn't actually prevent the crime from occurring in the first place. It's just a feel good measure that doesn't do anything.
Robert,
There was also an armed robbery Saturday evening inside the Apple Store. Imagine the kids, families, etc who were in the store getting their iPhone accessories, etc and seeing the store robbed at gun point. And people have an issue with a good guy with a gun. These people need to taste a few bullets. Cops are blocks away but way too late to do anything about this. This is totally insane. Elrich will be reelected. Remember voters, that's 4 more long years.
It will get worse before it gets better. Elect Sully Reardon and better will come much sooner.
Another day another crime brought to you courtesy of the democrats revolving wheel of justice.
This is in the parking lot of the North Bethesda Metro station.
There is no "White Flint" anymore.
"You wouldn't have been carjacked if you didn't own a car. Choose public transit instead and avoid the hassle."
- MoCo Council
If you don't stop criminals from stealing parked cars, they'll eventually decide to steal cars with people in them.
This County cannot afford another Elrich term.
@6:30 AM A good guy with a gun aiming for a bad guy with a gun could do some serious damage to innocent bystanders just to make himself a hero. Not worth the collateral damage IMHO. You need to lower your imaginative ifs and buts.
I don't see anything (yet) on the Bethesda-magazine-related blog about this.
But I don't think anyone wants to see a shootout inside the Apple store, or any other store.
Does legitimate/legal "self-defense" cover someone's use of a gun to protect someone else (the Apple cashier, probably trained as matter of policy just to hand over the goods, precisely to prevent a shootout), that he or she isn't standing right next to?
The continued silence and indifference of Elrich on these crimes is infuriating.
The fact that you MoCo leftists continue to support him given that silence and indifference is even more so.
I remember when MoCo used to be a safe place to be out with the family. It just isn't anymore and it makes me really sad and angry.
That's actually a valid question. In many states, absolutely you can use deadly force to stop a threat. In MD, who knows. If someone in a church service is carrying a firearm, you are saying that you would not want him to use it to stop the likely carnage of men, women, children and religious in the church? Think about that. Good guy with a gun is better than good guy, no gun against bad guy with at least one gun if that makes sense.
5:54 - Oh, it's about to get much, much worse. MD will be controlled in Annapolis by a Far Leftie, Wes Moore and MoCo will continue it's precipitous decline under Elrich. It would be a story worthy of national attention if a black man (Dem) became the first person of color to lead MD and at the same time, a black man (Republican) upset Marc Elrich. Sadly though, there's not a snowball's chance the latter will occur. In a word, screwed.
@2:28 PM: I have a Maryland Wear & Carry Permit (in addition to permits for several other states) and I regularly conceal carry in Bethesda. I practice for the situation where I am either confronted by or in proximity to someone who is using a gun in the commission in a crime. It's a very real possibility these days, but it isn't something I seek out, and I don't ever do it to be a hero. I carry to protect threats to my life or to my loved ones if I'm out with them. A couple things are of paramount importance when carrying a firearm: You never draw on a drawn gun already pointed in your direction; You watch your target background when making a shot. Collateral damage is certainly a possibility, but that's where practice and good judgment comes into play to reduce the likelihood of it. You can't expect perfect on this.
It can't just be a good guy with a gun. It needs to be a competent good guy with a gun who's put in the training time to be proficient, to be safe and to use good judgment. Honestly, I get over to the range to practice more often than most police officers do. I also probably go through more practice ammo than your average police officer uses as well. Both of these things are true for a lot of responsible and competent gun owners. Not all of them, but for a lot of them. That doesn't mean I pretend to be a police officer or think I can stand in for one. That's not my job and that's not why I carry a concealed firearm. If I'm in a position to call the police to come, that's what I do before ever drawing my firearm. Hopefully they arrive to resolve the situation without me ever having to draw my firearm. I definitely could have been in the Apple Store at the time this occurred, but I would have used good judgment and my knowledge of the applicable Maryland Law(s) for what to do in the situation. If there was a legitimate deadly threat to my life or to someone in my close proximity, and I had no ability to retreat safely, I would be fully justified in using deadly force on the individual with the gun under Maryland Law.
@2:46 PM: I don't expect you will see anything in that rag's blog other than a quiet mention in the weekly crime report, which all of their readers apparently ignore when they go to the polls. I don't want to have a shootout in the Apple Store either, but I've accepted MoCo reality for what it is. Stuff like this is happening now. If someone is brandishing a firearm in a threatening matter in proximity to me and there's a deadly threat to my life from that from which I cannot safely retreat, I will safely draw my firearm and fire.
That's a good question, and the best source for an answer on that is the Maryland Criminal Pattern Jury Instructions. Let's start with basic self-defense under MD Law:
Self-defense (MPJI-Cr 5:07)
Self-defense is a defense, and the defendant must be found not guilty if all of the following three factors are present:
1) The defendant actually believed that were in immediate and imminent danger of bodily harm.
2) The defendant's belief was reasonable.
3) The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend in light of the threatened or actual harm.
How this applies to Deadly Force:
"Deadly-force is that amount of force reasonably calculated to cause death or serious bodily harm. If the defendant is found to have used deadly-force, it must be decided whether the use of deadly-force was reasonable. Deadly-force is reasonable if the defendant actually had a reasonable belief that the aggressor's force was or would be deadly and that the defendant needed a deadly-force response."
Also, Maryland is a "Duty to Retreat" State, so I have a Duty to Retreat if it can be done safely:
"In addition, before using deadly-force, the defendant is required to make all reasonable effort to retreat. The defendant does not have to retreat if the defendant was in home, retreat was unsafe, the avenue of retreat was unknown to the defendant, the defendant was being robbed, the defendant was lawfully arresting the victim. If the defendant was found to have not used deadly-force, then the defendant had no duty to retreat."
As to your question about "Defense of Others", such as the Apple Store Employees:
Defense of Others (MPJI-Cr 5:01)
Defense of others is a defense, and the defendant must be found not guilty if all of the following four factors are present:
1) The defendant actually believed that the person defended was in immediate and imminent danger of bodily harm.
2) The defendant's belief was reasonable.
3) The defendant used no more force than was reasonably necessary to defend the person defended in light of the threatened or actual force.
4) The defendant's purpose in using force was to aid the person defended.
So everything is pretty fact-dependent given the above Jury Instructions. The obligation of the "Duty to Retreat" will interplay with engaging in the "Defense of Others" in this case. If it's happening in close proximity to me without giving me a safe avenue of retreat, I could be justified in using deadly force. If it's not in proximity to me, it may not be as justified because I could have retreated safely. Of course, this assumes that the MoCo prosecutor even brings charges on me in the first place, which may not be a good look for them, not that they seem to care anymore with their revolving door of criminals they let out.
@6:22 AM: Indeed, it's a very good question. As I mentioned in my response to 2:46 PM, deadly force for self-defense is permissible in MD if it was reasonable under the circumstances: The individual actually had a reasonable belief that the aggressor's force was or would be deadly and the individual needed a deadly-force response. Also, before using deadly-force, the individual is required to make all reasonable and safe efforts to retreat. This Duty to Retreat doesn't apply if in a home, if retreating would put them in danger, if the path of retreat is unknown, or if they were being robbed at the time.
The church question is a whole different situation, especially if you think that the original person with the gun is likely/planning to shoot one or more people no matter what.
Someone trying to rob the Apple store probably (not always) mostly wants just to get the cash and goods, and to get out safe and with minimum public attention.
@8:39 AM: Nothing says minimum attention like carrying a gold Glock with an extended magazine while robbing an Apple Store on a Saturday early-evening on Bethesda Row.
2:28 - absolutely wrong.
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