I recommended years ago that Montgomery County put incentives and requirements for nightlife, including rooftop nightclubs at the new hotels being approved for urban areas like downtown Bethesda. Those suggestions fell on deaf ears at the Council and Planning Board, as of course, it is much cheaper to put up a hotel with a non-active roof use. Naturally, our developer-controlled Council and Planning Board never put the public before the developers, which is how we ended up with no replacement cineplex and no replacement Capital Crescent Trail tunnel under Wisconsin Avenue in the Apex Building redevelopment - even though the Council and Board held full authority to require both. Heckuva job, Brownie!
By contrast, the District is getting its latest rooftop nightspot tonight, April 17, 2019 with the debut of 12 Stories, high atop The InterContinental Hotel at The Wharf. The 3500 SF rooftop features spectacular views of the Potomac River, waterfront and Washington, D.C. We could have had something like this on top of the new hotels coming to Wisconsin Avenue here, but...the Council was too busy collecting developer checks, and debating a ban on circus animals instead.
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| Current and prospective MoCo bar and restaurant owners said, "Yes, Yes, Yes!" to privatization of liquor sales, but our cartel-controlled County Council said, "No, No, No!" |
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| The J Street Spritz at 12 Stories at The Wharf |
All that's busting in Montgomery County is the County budget, in the red again this year, with residents facing yet another increase in property taxes. With what the Maryland Restaurant Association complained was a "flat" restaurant and bar market in Montgomery County, record numbers of closures, and profits declining in a business with thin margins already, we're losing nightlife spending and alcohol sales to the District and Virginia, thanks to our archaic County government-controlled liquor monopoly.
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| The Wharf Burger |
While Montgomery County's "leaders" turn to taxpayers again this year for yet another payday 4.8% property tax increase, the developers of The Wharf in D.C. turned to the Gerber Group, the geniuses behind NYC’s Mr. Purple, The Roof and The Campbell, and Atlanta's Whiskey Blue, "known for its signature elevated nightlife experience and top-notch food and beverage," it says.
Montgomery County's vision for an "elevated nightlife experience?" "More taxi stands [ever heard of Uber and Lyft, guys?], more buses," and continued total monopoly government control of liquor sales to restaurants, bars and the public. No wonder Montgomery County is at rock bottom in the region by every relevant economic development measure.
They blew it, folks.
Photos by Anna Meyer
64 comments:
10:11: LOL - more lies. We the TAXPAYERS are paying for the tunnel under 355 - NOT the developer. All because the Council & Planning Board did not require the developer to provide the tunnel. Good God.
The relocation of the Capital Crescent Trail tunnel under MD 355 was made necessary by construction of the Purple Line and station and the new south entrance to the Bethesda Metro station. Why should the developer pay for this? My God, you are a moron, Dyer.
10:38: What normal, average citizen would say, "I'd like to pay for that, instead of the developer who is profiting from the redevelopment of the site?" Think about it.
THIS is what you wrote.
"We ended up with no replacement Capital Crescent Trail tunnel under Wisconsin Avenue in the Apex Building redevelopment - even though the Council and Board held full authority to require both."
You said that there wasn't going to be ANY replacement.
You got #Triggered when you were showed that you were clearly wrong.
Came for a photo of Riemer looking confused. Left disappointed...
10:54: It's a fact that a new CCT tunnel was NOT part of the Apex minor master plan amendment. The one being proposed now is being built by the County, at taxpayer expense, instead of being delivered by the developer as part of the 7272 Wisconsin project. What is so hard to understand about this?
11:18: Just tune into any Council meeting - you won't be disappointed.
Just an FYI, the Bethesda nighttime economy is also impacted by the recent developments of Gaithersburg, Rockville, Pike & Rose and other areas within the region. In previous year, many people would travel to Bethesda via Barwood Taxi to go out due to a lack of options. With more options Bethesda become less desirable. Also with the increase in semi-luxury housing with prices comparable to DC rents, more 25-35 age range people decided rather than pay a premium for housing and commuting to DC, to just pay a premium to live in DC. DC and the region have also grown, you use the example of the Wharf in this post. The Wharf and the Navy Yard have alot more desirable night time options than Bethesda (Nats Park, Audi Field, Waterfront dining, etc). Bethesda has...? I believe the overall assumption that tax rates and government regulation has caused a collapse of the Bethesda nighttime economy is a little short sighted. The expansion and redevelopment of other areas within the region have made Bethesda overall less desirable for the nighttime people you are citing. Past 30 years old, 11pm and late nights are reduced. Those still going out regularly past 11pm in Bethesda are those you find staggering out of Tommy Joes on a Tuesday. Focus your fight on high rents of developments and Greenhill's predatory leasing practices in an area that is not what is once was.
I don't disagree with bashing MoCo officials, but to suggest the Wharf is an example of MoCo losing is pretty far-fetched. We don't have a bar to open on a beautiful waterfront steps away from international landmarks within a worldwide tourist destination here in MoCo. Just not the landscape. Now comparing to Frederick, Tyson's, Columbia, or parts of Nova that's more fair.
12:02
"is pretty far-fetched"
That's a massive understatement for every comment Robert Dyer has ever made on business, politics, the economy, and commercial real estate
I follow this blog quite regularly, and this is the first I’ve heard of this reduction in nightime economy in Bethesda based on a developer driven cartel. Please tell us more about your theories! Or rather, not.
I believe that current plans show about 6500 new multifamily apartments under construction or in the pipeline. At about 1.5 residents per unit, this will translate to about 10,000 more people living in downtown. With Marriott and four other new high rises under construction and coming online soon, about 8500 more people will work in downtown. With two new high rise hotels, about 500 more hotels guests will stay overnight in downtown, and likely dine and shop in the area. A new light rail station, and a new south entrance to the Metro are under construction, with hundreds of folks more accessible to transit, or passing through the city on their rail commute. Thousands of hikers and bikers will soon enjoy traveling to Bethesda from as far as Georgetown and Silver Spring along a vastly improved Capital Crescent Trail, on dedicated, grade separated trails, without having to cross anything but one or two small streets.
So you really think that 20,000 more people living, working, dining, shopping and commuting or hiking or biking to/from/through downtown Bethesda is not a sign that, in the big picture, things are looking very good for Bethesda?
Yes, of course a few nightclubs have closed, and there is a bit of turn-over on the retail and restaurant side, but Bethedsa Row is nearly fully leased. New development in Bethesda has NEVER been as active as it is now. Perhaps the 20,000 new folks that will soon be part of Bethesda’s intense growth will disagree with your dower assessment.
After 50 years of trying to turn Bethesda into a bustling, crowded, nighttime destination, can we just finally admit that "Bethesda" doesn't want to be that?
Once we do we can bring back the quirky, fun, and weird Bethesda.
1:13 PM Bethesda nightlife was livelier- it wasn't even that long ago. Even 10 years ago it was much more lively. Certainly 20 years ago.
We can do better. No reason to throw in the towel and say that Bethesda can't be one of Maryland's great cities. It's sad that Silver Spring and even Gaithersburg have moved ahead.
New development will bring more people which is good. But where are the new night time options? Particularly in entertainment?
Also, I like some of the proposals Robert Dyer has made. Such as better utilization of Glen Echo Park. It's really a gem that could have much wider appeal...something unique to our part of the county. Imagine re-activating it as an amusement park.
I can certainly live without dance clubs, but I would like to see more live music event spaces and performing arts venues like theaters, comedy clubs or event spaces. I suggest that the older and more affluent crowd would agree that we don’t need a Studio 54, but more places to catch a player performance. I look forward to the reopening of the remodeled Roundhouse Theater, and is curious about the plans for the new 4000 SF theater that is part of a new mixed-use development proposed on the west side of Wisconsin, south of Woodmont.
Sure there have been blocks of lively many times over the years. McDonald's Raw Bar anyone? The novelty of Bethesda Row brought out a lot of people at first.
Anyone remember when we were all upset that they were trying to make Bethesda popular for other people, not for the Bethesda community? That was what...the 90's? 80's? 70's?
The fun places can't afford the sky-high rents and the chains don't have personality.
We're in the twilight of the baby-boomer age, (when everyone knew what was expected and where people's tastes were headed because it was a slight tweak from their parents)...to a new main demographic of millennials, with a technology core, where no one really knows where the future is heading. Will office buildings matter in 10 years?
If I end up being wrong, I'll gladly admit it. I'd love to see a popular Bethesda again.
"Where there were crowds on sidewalks and corners outside of downtown Bethesda's nightclubs and bars prior to the initiative, 16 nightspots have shuttered since the task force debacle."
You might want to mention that the rebuilding of the Southwest Waterfront has resulted in the closure of several long-standing restaurants there - among them Hogates, the Channel Inn, Phillips, Jenny's, and forced Cantina Marina to move to a smaller location.
1:39: We certainly could use a venue like The Anthem or The Fillmore here in Bethesda. As a single person, I'd like to see a return to nightclubs, as well. Regarding the 4000 SF movie theater, call me a skeptic - such a theater could not afford to show first run movies, and would have only one screen. My suspicion is that they are using the theater to obtain the extra density, and then they will request to delete it at a later date. Developer-controlled Planning Board will eagerly grant the request.
1:13: Let's not forget that the "old" Bethesda included crowded nightclubs like the Shark Club, The Yacht Club and the Twist & Shout - as well as those who were trying to provide a more VIP experience in the final years before the Nighttime Economy Task Force debacle, such as The Parva and Relic.
It's also not smart to force young people to go into D.C. for nightlife, and then turn around and say, "It's just us old folks here, so we don't need nightlife after all!" The loss of revenue and young workers is demonstrably killing us.
1:24: Hear, hear - we could be using Glen Echo as a revenue generator with a restored amusement park, and the Spanish Ballroom restored as the live venue for top music acts it was decades ago. Like the rooftop nightclubs, I've been advocating for this since early this decade.
1:11: I think if you ask any new resident, most will actually agree with my assessment. If they are younger, they are already going into D.C. for nightlife, and are not happy to find out the interesting new building on Bethesda Avenue is going to be a bank instead of a hot new restaurant or nightspot with rooftop and patio to activate a dark street at night.
Most young professionals would also agree the streets are dark, quiet and deserted after 9 or 10 PM in downtown Bethesda, and that it's not helping to create a lively urban experience.
The thousands of apartments you cite will likely be filled with the same airbnb overnight guests, dorm students and employer-subsidized contract housing that is currently filling the new post-recession buildings already constructed. There's little demand for these apartments at market rate, and with the sad state of nightlife, only those who are getting a major discount or free housing are moving in - and then taking Uber into D.C. for actual nightlife. Taking massive amounts of tax revenue with them - and that's not including lost liquor sales to D.C. and McLean.
We're in real trouble here folks, if your property tax bill didn't make that clear.
"The thousands of apartments you cite will likely be filled with the same airbnb overnight guests, dorm students and employer-subsidized contract housing that is currently filling the new post-recession buildings already constructed."
Oh, please, not this delusional crap yet again.
9:28: Verified facts from my investigation. The "housing crisis" myth has been obliterated.
LOL, sure.
But it's great to know that our local business climate is so strong that employers are subsidising luxury apartments for their employees.
A more serious question - when did you come to be a hater of AirBNB? You used to routinely castigate the MoCoCouncil for trying to regulate them.
9:46: The employers are not located in Montgomery County, which ranks dead last in the region in economic development this decade. Humiliating.
Your guys on the Council hate airbnb, not me.
What are "dorm students"?
5:10: Students enrolled in college or graduate school who are placed in vacant apartments by their university, instead of in on-campus dorms.
Why not say "college students"? That's more clear. An apartment is not a dormitory - the latter consists of several dozen bedrooms with a few shared bathrooms and no kitchens.
And why is having college students living in downtown Bethesda a bad thing?
Also, if there is someone living in a "vacant apartment", then it is no longer vacant.
Also, college students pay for their housing just as they pay for tuition. It's not something that colleges give to their students for free.
Which local colleges and university are using recently built apartments in downtown Bethesda to house their students? Or are the students simply choosing to live off campus, with no involvement from their college?
6:33: It's actually a great thing to have college students in downtown Bethesda. That's not the point of the debate, however. The issue is that the cartel has claimed 1) there is a housing crisis, 2) there is great demand for their market rate $2400+ rents for studios and up, and that 3) by being allowed to build thousands and thousands of new units, rents will go down due to supply.
All three have been proven false. That's why the desperate move to have to turn to college students at a lower contract rate with local colleges is an important piece of information to disprove the cartel's messaging.
Why not just say "college students?" Because that would be misleading - perhaps suggesting college students were somehow able to afford market rate apartments in Bethesda. No, sir, that is definitely not the case.
It's important to mention "dorm" to make the distinction that these students are being placed in otherwise unrentable luxury units via subsidies from their local college or university.
I’m not sure where you get your data, but most apartments (and mine in particular) do not allow residents to sublet their unit using website like Air B&B. Even if they did, I would think a short term resident would be even more likely to visit local restaurants and shops. Why would the seek out an expensive short stay in Bethesda if they think the place is unappealing? A quick search of AirB&B does not show any such units in luxury high-rise rental apartments. A few landlords seem to offer a couple of units as short term stay, as fully furnished units, but I would guess this is more of a marking ploy to showcase their buildings, and offer regular residents that the chance to have a relative stay nearby for a few days. Perhaps a few in condos, but very expensive units.
Regarding dorm use, I highly doubt the University of Maryland, Georgetown or UDC actually rent luxury high-rise multi-family apartment to be used as dorms. Perhaps garden apartments elsewhere, but certainly not in any of the expensive new towers in downtown. Even if they did, why not welcome students to Bethesda. You know they eat and shop as well.
I would think employer contracted hosing in expensive new high-rises would also be a plus. If Marriott wants to lease 100 new apartments at $4000 per month in a new tower neat their new HQ for their executives as a perk, why in the would world would this be a bad thing. Even more income stream into the area restaurants and retail.
You argue that there is little demand for these apartments at market rate, but I find that most buildings are nearly full. I guess the landlords are giving them away for free, and seemingly anxious to build 6500 more units to give away for free as well.
Your logic, as usual, is absurd.
"Why not just say 'college students?' Because that would be misleading - perhaps suggesting college students were somehow able to afford market rate apartments in Bethesda. No, sir, that is definitely not the case."
Well, undergraduates typically can't afford any kind of housing on their own - it's their parents who pay for it.
But graduate students typically have jobs, often full-time, and would be in a position to pay for their housing.
"A quick search of AirB&B does not show any such units in luxury high-rise rental apartments."
Once again, Dyer's readers have to do his work for him.
"Montgomery County's vision for an 'elevated nightlife experience?' "More taxi stands [ever heard of Uber and Lyft, guys?]" [square brackets per original]
Well, Uber and Lyft are taxis, and having taxi stands for them in congested areas is certainly convenient when they are picking up or discharging passengers, rather than having to double-park on busy streets.
7:29: Uber and Lyft are most definitely not taxis, but ride sharing services. I understand that's hard for you to understand, as a supporter of outdated taxicabs that have gone bankrupt despite the County Council forcing us to subsidize them.
7:25: I'm using airbnb generically - I don't know where they list the units as hotel rooms, I just know that they do and have confirmed people staying in them as hotel rooms. Facts.
7:22: In a position to pay $2400+ a month rent? LOL. No, sir.
6:58: Whoa, whoa, whoa - you just tried to divert attention with a totally false premise. Tenants are NOT subletting their apartments as airbnb in these new buildings. It is the building owners themselves who are making the many units they can't get anyone to lease available as hotel rooms.
Let's get that straight - it's the whole point, and one of the "three proofs" my investigation has uncovered to explode the myth of our "housing crisis."
I don't know what percent of the transient substitute tenants are from colleges contracting as dorm rooms; I only know that is one of the tactics they're using to fill the vacant units in the new buildings.
There are a number of problems with the contract housing/employer-subsidized housing: they still generate students, they are even less concerned about the community than regular rental tenants but still vote while uninformed, they mean we are taking on the costs and downsides of growth under false pretenses as there actually is no demand, and there are fair housing laws potentially being violated when landlords can choose a certain level of tenant, and that people coming in off the street are being charged full rent and not the discounted rent that these tenant substitutes are enjoying.
Yes the rental buildings are usually full - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT - they're filling them with the hotel guests, dormitory students and subsidized employer-contract housing!
There is no actual market demand or "housing crisis" for these luxury apartments.
"Uber and Lyft are most definitely not taxis, but ride sharing services."
Just because they don't do street-hails doesn't magically make them "not-taxis".
And Dyer completely ignored this:
"A quick search of AirB&B does not show any such units in luxury high-rise rental apartments."
If there is no housing crisis, then why is housing so expensive in our County, driving steady increases in property tax assessments, even after the property tax rate has been reduced two years in a row?
8:39: There's more ways to rent out as a hotel room than airbnb, moron.
9:08: First of all, property taxes have gone up every year except 2014. Second of all, how do expensive housing prices equal a "crisis?" My investigation has found empty affordable units in county, and a clear inability to rent new luxury apartments at the market rents.
There is no crisis.
I also checked VBbO, Vacation Rentals by Owner, with filters set to no specific date, bedroom size or cost, and only found two units in luxury high-rise apartment buildings in downtown Bethesda. One at Upstairs at Bethesda Row and one at the Metropolitan. Both appeared to be furnished model apartments that are offered by management as units that can be rented for short stays. I still contend these are offered by management as a benefit of their regular tenant who might need room for out of town guests, and not as party places for crazy bachelor parties.
Most luxury apartment building explicitly prohibit short stay leasing by their tenants, and do not themselves offer short stay rentals as most full time tenants apparently do not appreciate these type of neighbors.
Pleas explain why they are building 6500 units if there is no market demand. Perhaps they are doing this just to piss you off? I suspect that apartment landlords are wise enough to see that Bethesda is a dramatic, growing and dynamic place to live, work, shop and dine. Nearly perfect Walkscore and Transitscore, only a short Metro ride to DC. Perhaps you have grown calloused as a lifelong resident, but I believe that downtown Bethesda is one of the coolest places in America. It certainly has changed over time, and I would argue, is getting better than it has ever been.
Saith Dyer: "My investigation has found empty affordable units in county, and a clear inability to rent new luxury apartments at the market rents."
Actual numbers you found, or it's bullshit. Just like your "anomalous votes" for anyone but yourself.
"Pleas[e] explain why they are building 6500 units if there is no market demand. Perhaps they are doing this just to piss you off?"
Yep. That sums it up. Dude with no job thinks he's smarter than the market. LOL
10:18: How would you obtain precise numbers when such information is confidential under federal rules? That's why I had to conduct my own investigation. And the results were a powerful blow to the ongoing developer propaganda. I even found reviews online written by the hotel guest-type temporary residents.
Again, you repeated your TOTAL FALSEHOOD that it was tenants subletting their rental units. NO, IT WAS NOT. It is the building owners/management renting out vacant units no one will rent at the going market rate, not the tenants. Of course tenants are not allowed to. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT of my research and breakthrough investigation!
There is no market for $2400+ a month tiny apartments. But, developers can still profit by building the projects, and then stuffing them with hotel guests, students, and contract housing. So, yes, they would like to build 6500 or 65000 units - and then stuff 'em with more phony guests on a nightly or "extended-stay-hotel" basis.
So, no reduction in rents despite growing inventory, and the contract housing is still generating MCPS students along with the MPDUs. We're getting all the negative, and none of the positive.
I understand your frustration.
That's probably why you messed up so bad and talked to yourself at 10:01, forgetting that you started both comments with your tired old, "Saith Dyer,"
#Oops
B O O M
Dyer debates with facts; anonymous just has insults.
This is why Reamer and team were too scared to debate Dyer in person. Last live TV debate, Dyer has Reamer peeing his pants. I think it's still up on mymedia...check out the closing minutes for Reamer's "pee face"
Not-So-Anonymous: Your first and second paragraphs contradict each other.
Also, your post has nothing to do with the subject of this article.
So you are suggesting that landlords are secretly booking their un-leased apartment units as hotel rooms, on a nightly basis. You are saying that Bozzuto, Bainbridge, Solaire and other apartment landlords have become secret hoteliers? So where do I call to book a night in one of these secret and illegal hotel rooms? This sounds very intriguing!
Maybe those hotel rental channels are only receivable when one wears a tin foil hat.
Please do not call me a moron. I make a perfectly sane comment, explain my reasoning, and even suggest I have researched both AirB&N and VRBO and find no evidence of available short term rentals through apartment tenants, condo owners and apartment management company’s, and as I stated, I only found two available units.
So let be ask as nicely as I can (again), what financial motivation do apartment developers have if not being market driven. You believe some underground pipeline of units in apartment building are being leased on a nightly basis, or to students, or to corporations as contract housing? Please give us more details on your so called research and breakthrough investigation.
7:53: I'm not just suggesting they're renting them as hotel rooms, I've proven it. Developers are profit-driven more than market driven. The money is in delivering the project, and often then selling it. If they can put live bodies into the units below market rate, they apparently can still turn a profit. Otherwise they wouldn't be planning to build even more despite the proven lack of demand for the new apartments.
As I've said, in my investigation, I've not only confirmed the facts by speaking to actual people in these buildings, but also in locating reviews by guests who have stayed in these buildings overnight and then posted their comments about their stay.
If you don't want to be called a moron, don't lie and say I "ignored" a point when I clearly responded to it.
"Developers are profit-driven more than market driven."
Oh, this is such precious Argle-Bargle.
"I've proven it"
Great! Let's see the facts. Not suppositions, opinion or hearsay evidence, those are conjecture...
The facts. Direct and documentary evidence.
Let's see them.
4:49: I've presented the facts. They can be verified by anyone who wishes to investigate. Then present your facts that prove mine wrong. I'm confident of total victory in that debate, as I know the truth.
You sound like you have a dog in the fight over development - very suspicious.
I believe you have assumed that all of these questions regarding your assumptions are coming from one person, but I was the original poster, challenging your statement, and others chimed in to support my comments.
I truly would like to understand your notion that developers would choose to spend millions to acquire very expensive land, then go through the arduous task of getting a project entitled, then spend millions to build and operate a multifamily tower, and this would all be driven (by your theory) by something other than an intent to make money by filling a market driven shortage of housing.
I really don’t understand what other economic force would drive such an effort.
Your comment about having a dog in the fight was directed at a different post, but let me just say that I am not a developer but only a (new) resident to the area, living in multi-family housing, and quite amazed about the amount of development in the area.
My background is in architecture, and as a project designer I have designed and overseen the construction over 200 projects in the Midwest. Many of them very similar to these new towers, including student housing, high-rise multi-family housing and condos. In my 40 years in the business, I have never seen a project that was not driven primarily by market conditions. Nobody in this industry willingly build non-viable projects to meet some secret agenda. It’s all about the money, and I my experience they won’t spend money unless they believe there is a void in the marketplace that they can fill.
Yes, some developers build to flip, but the project itself is always targeted to make money by selling or leasing units based on what the market in the area is demanding. And yes some projects fail because the developer does not fully understand the market demand, like at the Lauren where it appears nobody wants to spend $10.5 million dollars for a pink granite condo in downtown Bethesda, and 30% of the unsold units are in foreclosure.
So let me ask again, please help me understand why you do not believe that apparent voids in the available muilti-family housing market does not drive the desire for developers to attempt to fill demand with new construction.
"As I've said, in my investigation, I've not only confirmed the facts by speaking to actual people in these buildings, but also in locating reviews by guests who have stayed in these buildings overnight and then posted their comments about their stay."
Link to even one of those "reviews" else it's bullshit. Like your claims of "vote fraud" in the three elections in a row in which the voters of Montgomery County body-slammed you through a glass coffee table.
Bethesda is becoming the Leisure World of the Red Line. Most millennials don't even consider Bethesda.
7:22 apparently has never spent any time at Harris-Teeter. It's full of folks in their 20s and 30s, at all times of the day.
6:02: I think The Lauren is actually a great example of what I was saying about the market not driving all developer decisions. There has not been a market for the product advertised at that price in this area. It did not have river or monument views, the floorplans were boxy, and the design accents inside and out in no way justified the price. Yet the development was built.
In other cases, there certainly is a level of demand for apartments and condos in Bethesda, but just not at these prices. Yet the prices do not come down as the Council promised us they would; instead, they fill the units with these various methods, but keep the high market price public for the rest of us who don't have the "side door" to get in (to use the college admissions scandal analogy).
The market does still reign supreme in some cases, specifically the office market. There are very few projects because it is recognized there are no big corporations or massive numbers of jobs coming here in the near future with our moribund economy and anti-business Council policies.
Yet there are at least 4 Class A buildings being constructed mostly on spec in Bethesda now or soon. The 4747 Bethesda Avenue building was unable to attract a major corporate HQ, so the developer itself is going to move into it.
These are the kinds of solutions builders are finding, but again, the projects did not have a solid market. Yet they are being built, and will have to be subsidized with smaller tenants at taxpayer expense.
Profit, while less than hoped for, will be achieved. But there was no actual market!
The problem with that entire strip between Arlington Road and Woodmont Avenue is that, while it is only 2-3 blocks from the Metro, building heights are severely restricted because of the single-family homes on the other side of Arlington Road in Edgemoor. That is an actual distortion of the market, not Dyer's wild confabulations above.
8:33: Facts are not "wild confabulations." The downfall of the Lauren was not its height. In fact, they couldn't even sell the fabled penthouse, and tried to chop it up into smaller units later.
Wild confabulations are not "facts".
Thanks for your thoughtful answer to my question. I guess we can agree to disagree about the motivation of multifamily landlords.
Regarding 4747 Bethesda, I would not be to quick suggest that the project is not extremely successful. As you likely know, the project is 83% leased and it won’t be open until the fall of 2019. This is quite remarkable for an office building in this market that was built on entirely onspec, and was not ever intended as a corporate headquarters for a singular company.
From Washington Business Journal:
Pebblebrook’s planned HQ move brings 4747 Bethesda Ave. to 83 percent pre-leased. Booz Allen Hamilton has already signed on for about 65,000 square feet, while Host Hotels & Resorts will take 55,000 square feet for its new headquarters. JBG Smith itself will move from Chevy Chase to about 80,000 square feet in the building. Orano USA, the U.S. subsidiary of global nuclear fuel cycle company Orano SA, has signed on for about 22,000 square feet.
I would also argue th fact that JBG Smith moving into 4747 Bethesda is a very big win for the city. They are moving their HQ entirely from Chevy Chase, and will include 939 employees in 80,000 SF. They are ranked as the fifth largest developer in the DC area with a portfolio of 36.73 million square feet, with 31.35 million square feet of leased space and over 3 million square feet under construction. They are a big developer of office and multi-family high-rise apartment buildings, including the 7900 Wisconsin that will include a neighborhood grocer and an Orange Theory Fitness Center, as shown on their current lease material. They are developing an Alamo Draft House Cinema in Crystal City, so I am hoping they can help convince them to come to Bethesda as well. I still think the small office building just north of 7272 Wisconsin would be a perfect location for an urban cinema.
Of course we all know JBG Smith are a huge land and building owner in the National Landing project in Crystal and Pentagon City, which just signed leases and are about to sell property to Amazon for their HQ2 with up to 37,850 employees.
JBG Smith is a major player, and although perhaps not quite a Fortune 500 company like Marriott with 3500 employees, they are in fact themselves a major corporate HQwith nearly 1000 employees. They obviously agree with many that Bethesda is a great location, and will become a big part of the Bethesda Row area. They could have easily moved to the National Landing to be close to Amazon, but decided to stay in MoCo.
"JBG Smith is a major player, and although perhaps not quite a Fortune 500 company like Marriott with 3500 employees, they are in fact themselves a major corporate HQwith nearly 1000 employees."
From what I've seen, "Fortune 500 headquarters" have about 500 employees on average. So JBG Smith's office will have twice that.
6:32: JBG was already in Montgomery County. It's not a Fortune 500, and Montgomery County has failed to attract a major corporate headquarters in two decades.
I strongly doubt all 1000 JBG/Charles Smith employees are going to be stuffed into 4747 Bethesda Avenue. That would be a very cramped office, to say the least. Northrop has 500 in their Virginia HQ, which is slightly larger (but not as nice-looking as 4747 Bethesda, it must be said). MoCo lost the contest for the Northrop HQ earlier this decade.
3:08: The decision to move to 4747 was made prior to Amazon choosing their Crystal City site, so they did not actually make that choice - but I think most people would choose Bethesda Row over Crystal City in terms of environment, putting aside the economic boom of Amazon being located there.
You are correct that JBG Smith lists 936 employees in their entire company. I’m sure some will be in satellite offices in Crystal City for the foreseeable future. They likely have other staff managing their other office and residential projects that would not be in Bethesda. Many modern offices employees use what is call hoteling, where multiple employees that travel quite a bit share workstations. This is very common in the developer space as lots of staff are dedicated to remote project sites, but need a place to touch down at the HQ. I suspect that Marriott will also heavily rely on this type of workplace, and will not have 3500 actual workstations.
I still contend that JBG’s recent merger with Vornado/Smith and their relocation to Bethesda is a very important move, and should be counted as a major corporate headquarters moving to downtown Bethesda. Yes, they are already in a very nice building, adjacent to the Metro in Chevy Chase, but their decision to occupy 80,000 SF in a new “trophy class” office building speaks loudly about the health and desirability of downtown Bethesda.
7:54: It's without question a great win for downtown Bethesda, with all those workers heading out for lunch & happy hour. My only point was just to note that it doesn't count as a new company moving to the County, as they were already here like Marriott and Choice Hotels.
I also noted the a very large Orange Theory Fitness Center is shown on JBG Smith’s brochure for 7900 Wisconsin, on the Woodmont side, facing the new plaza. This brochure also shows that the 951 SF retail space between the fitness center and the un-named Grocery Store is also leased. Again, two tenants leased before the building it even topped out is a very good sign for the health of retail in the area.
https://api-jbgsmith.reol.com/pdf?file_name=7900_wisconsin_ave_brochure_feb_2019_email_1553144493.pdf
8:05: Yes, in fact Trader Joe's had reached agreement for that grocery space before the plans were even filed years ago.
Any word on what will happen at the existing Trader Joe’s once they move to 7900 Wisconsin? That existing location always seemed odd for a food market with difficult parking. The Target also seems to struggle with poorly stocked shelves. Seems like way too much stacked on that site, with out a really central location.
Any word on the former Safeway on Old Georgetown Road? A much more central location, with much better Metro access. Of course most folks with a car prefer to drive to a market, but they do have a private parking deck there as well. Seems like a real opportunity for a small health focused grocer or some other big box retailer that might want to be very central to the CBD. A Best Buy at that location would be nice as well, especially now that they closed the Tenleytown store.
Did I read on this site that Orange Theory is coming to Bethesda? This seems like big news, in a very competitive fitness market...
Reading up on their website, it looks like push folks pretty hard during a workout, to get into the "orange". Good thing they are not too far from Suburban Hospital Emergency Room.
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