What is Riemer's goal in expanding the number of accessory apartments in established SFH suburban neighborhoods? His plan is to subdivide every existing SFH lot in the County into 4 new housing units. Riemer has been caught on Facebook discussing his plans to allow every SFH lot to be rezoned for duplexes. Each of those duplexes would then be allowed to have an accessory apartment.
Accessory apartments have been sold to the public with the idea of one person living in a rental room, or as "granny pods," for families who apparently can't stand to be inside the same home with Grandma in her declining years. How heartwarming. In reality, the County's accessory apartment code - and the new language - openly acknowledges there could be children in these accessory units.
So each lot could ultimately have two new homes with families, and each of their accessory units could generate additional students for Montgomery County Public Schools. A potential of four families on each site that today can hold only one. Importantly, Riemer's duplex and accessory apartment scheme does not, to this point, provide any new funding to cover the surge in school construction costs it would cause. Kind of like the sector plans Riemer voted to approve, come to think of it.
Like many housing schemes advanced by Riemer, his developer sugar daddies, and his developer-funded Greater Greater Washington fellow travelers, the duplex/accessory apartment gimmick is presented under the banner of "affordable housing." But like all of the other schemes, that promise is false. After two decades of unrestrained development, with a brief Great Recession pause, home prices and rents in Montgomery County have increased, not decreased.
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| Riemer has made no secret of his contempt for Montgomery County's suburban and rural character |
The duplexes proposed by Riemer would not be any more affordable than the existing large houses on those suburban lots. If townhomes in those neighborhoods currently sell for over $1,000,000, what do you imagine a larger, new-construction duplex home would go for in 20816? Certainly not for the "affordable" price that Riemer and GGW would ask you to believe.
Embarrassingly, carpetbagger Riemer was unaware that duplexes are already scattered around the County in places like Rockville, Layhill and Glenmont. They are not a new idea at all, but are now non-compliant structures not permitted in SFH neighborhoods, much like high-rises that were built in low-rise areas in the County's past Wild West zoning era.
Riemer apparently is still closing his ears to his constituents' anger over overcrowded schools and congested roads. Instead of advancing plans to require tighter staging or higher impact taxes, Riemer is finding new ways to increase crowding. This fall, accessory apartments. Next Council term, duplexes.
83 comments:
MCPS will experience "quadruple overcrowding" if and only if:
1) Every single-family home is replaced by a duplex.
2) Every one of these duplexes has an accessory apartment.
3) Every one of these new housing units has a child attending MCPS, living in it.
4) There is absolutely no expansion of the capacity of MCPS.
This bill is also sponsored by Nancy Floreen, Independent candidate for County Executive. It's odd that you don't mention this.
“Embarrassingly, carpetbagger Riemer was unaware that duplexes are already scattered around the County in places like Rockville, Layhill and Glenmont.”
When? In what forum? Did you just make this up out of thin air?
Remember Reimer's bus tour of the "wastelands" of Westbard?
I have reviewed the legislation and there is nothing about any plan to “subdivide every existing SFH lot in the County into 4 new housing units.” This is classic NIMBY/Dyer hyperbole. Let’s consider the fact that Mr. Dyer frequently compares the county to the District and Northern Virginia, both of which allow accessory apartments. Shouldn’t we follow in the footsteps of these successful places?
Then Mr. Dyer goes on to whine about how housing prices in the county are increasing. How can one make alleged moribundity the central theme of one’s blog, while simultaneously bemoaning a rise in property values?
The reality is that fewer than half of the county’s homes are single-family dwellings. To bemoan the loss of suburban and rural “character” that doesn’t exist is just silly. Nobody is paving over the ag preserve.
I, for one, applaud this progress. People want to live in walkable, vibrant communities. Just look at places like Kentlands, King Farm, and Downtown Crown. Even all the way out in Clarksburg they’re building townhomes, not single family homes — because that’s what people want! If the schools are getting too crowded then let’s build some new ones. This isn’t rocket science, it’s what a thriving community looks like.
5:27AM - Agreed.
"families who apparently can't stand to be inside the same home with Grandma in her declining years. How heartwarming."
Wow. How telling is THAT statement? What a wretched way to think.
OR...
Grandma gets to spend more time with the family while not imposing on her independence.
Do you really despise your constituents as much as you infer?
I see Dyer is back to writing senseless diatribes.
What exactly does accessory apartments have anything to do with 'suburban or rural' character? It's about creating affordable living units in one of the most expensive counties to live in.
Your remark 'can't stand to be inside the same home with Grandma in her declining years' is very cruel and insensitive. There is clearly demand for housing who want to live semi-independently near their adult children. The deluge of senior living apartments springing up all over the county should have been your first clue.
'home prices and rents in Montgomery County have increased, not decreased' At least you're finally coming to terms with the fact that the county's economy is not moribund.
"Embarrassingly, carpetbagger Riemer was unaware that duplexes are already scattered around the County in places like Rockville, Layhill and Glenmont."
What exactly is Dyer saying?
"Old duplexes, good...new duplexes, BAD!"
As for school budget, will they have to pay an impact fee for the accessory apartment?
I had to change our renovation because of the current rules. We wanted to add a detached garage, and build a guest room on top of it. That would be considered an accessory apartment so we couldn't do it. Instead, we connected the structure to our existing house and that's allow. Same square footage, but all connected to one house.
You actually can have an accessory apartment under current zoning, but the limit is 1 per block or something like that, with lots of other restrictions. Our architects thought it better to just attach it to our house.
@Anna - Right?! These sorts of accessory apartments have existed for decades, and were called "mother-in-law suites". Both of my sets of grandparents homes had them, complete with separate entrance for privacy.
Accessory apartments are a great way to allow for more affordable housing in popular communities without necessarily tearing down existing buildings.
Wonder if Bob The Builder understands that developers have paid millions of dollars every year in proffers to fund MoCo schools?
So if more people are allowed to live on single family residential lots thru the use of accessory apartments, wouldn’t the additional people pay federal, state and county taxes, and contribute to the funding of schools (just like I do as an apartment resident)?
These improves to single family homes will likely increase their accessed value, and therefore will increase their real estate taxes and help fund schools.
The only real downside to this extra density is that most suburban single family homes have limited parking areas, and extra residents might utilize more on street parking. If you drive through most single family neighborhoods, there is plenty of on street parking to spare. Once parking gets constrained, access to mass transit is essential, and buses, BRT and Metro become more heavily used, which is alway a good thing. Congested roads are solved by making better alternatives like enhanced bus, BRT and Metro option, along with enhanced walkable, bikeable communities.
The idea of adding the option for more folks living and paying taxes in single family areas is smart. This country has for to long enjoyed the luxury of vast underutilized open spaces, very much defined by single family homes where 4 people live on a 50’ wide by 130’ deep (or larger) plot of land. This extremely low density is not sustainable. Higher density increases accessibility to amenities like retail and dining, creating a more stable market. Churches and multi-use gathering spaces like parks and recreation areas are more intensely utilized by a more dense population.
Obviously the more people on a single family lot, the lower the cost to each individual, and therefore, housing becomes more affordable for all. Folks can live in a nice garage apartment and share the use of a yard. Home owners can amortize the cost of their real estate investment and taxes by renting out these garage apartments. Existing residents can stay in place and improve their property and avoid additional suburban sprawl and commuting distances.
Thank you for this info. It makes me want to vote for Hans Riemer even more!
Robert, you are a mis-informed NIMBY if you can’t understand how increased density is a good thing for everyone. Yes schools need to accommodate more people, but more people pay more taxes for schools and more property value increases the property tax base for more school funding. Yes crowded roads are a pain, but that can and easily be solved by improving mass transit options, and reducing suburban sprawl.
"families who apparently can't stand to be inside the same home with Grandma in her declining years. How heartwarming."
Dyer seems to think that Granny is being moved out from the master bedroom upstairs into the toolshed (or outhouse), rather than Granny selling her own house where she was living all alone, and moving to be with her children and grandchildren.
Looks like the entire premise of this article got thoroughly bodyslammed through the proverbial coffee table. Womp womp.
Since Dyer can't be bothered to actually quote the proposed changes to the existing law on Accessory Apartments, here they are:
-Line 6: Replace "petition to the County Council to" with "application to initiate,"
-Line 13: Insert "waiver or"
-Line 26-29: Replace "unless a sign is required as part of an application for a special exception" with "The sign must identify any requested waivers under Section 29-26(b)"
-Lines 36-37: Insert "and if needed, a, Hearing Examiner granted a waiver under Section 29-26"
-Line 39: Insert "under the Zoning Ordinance applicable before October 30, 2014."
-Line 42 (section title): Insert "Waivers,"
-Line 44 (subsection title): Insert "Waivers,"
-Lines 47-48: Insert "request a waiver of a standard to the extent allowed by Section 59.3.3.3"
-Line 49: "a waiver or"
-Lines 55-56: Delete "when a special exception is not required."
-Lines 57-58: Replace "review by the Hearing Examiner" with "waiver or an objection"
-Line 60: Insert "Waiver or"
-Line 64: Replace "5 days after the objection is received" with "10 days after the waiver or objection is received"
-Line 65: Replace "conduct any such hearing within 20 days of the date the objection is received" with "conduct any such hearing within 30 days of the date the objection is received"
-Line 69: Insert "waiver or"
-Line 70-72: Replace "may find that on-street parking is inadequate" with "waive on-street parking standards"
-Line 80-82: Insert "and may impose other conditions to assure adequate parking on granting the waiver."
-Lines 83-87: Insert new subsection (8): "The Hearing Examiner may waive the distance separation standards between Accessory Apartments when the separation does not result in an excessive concentration of similar uses, including other conditional uses, in the general neighborhood of the proposed Accessory Apartment."
-Lines 88-90: Insert new subsection (9): "The Hearing Examiner may consolidate public hearings on any requested waivers and any objections to the Director's findings that involve the same license application."
Lines 91, 97, 99 - Renumber existing subsections (8), (9), and (10) to (10), (11), and (12) respectively.
Lines 91-92: Replace "The Hearing Examiner must issue a final decision within 30 days after the close of the adjudicatory hearing" with "The Hearing Examiner must issue a final decision within 30 days after the close of the record of the adjudicatory hearing".
Lines 92-96: Insert" If both the waiver request and an objection relating to the same accessory apartment license application are filed, the Hearing Examiner must issue the final decision within 30 days after the close of the record in both cases."
Lines 99-102: Replace "Any aggrieved party who objected under subsection 29-
26(b) on an objection or a waiver may request the Circuit Court to review the Hearing Examiner's final decision" with "Any party aggrieved by the Hearing Examiner's decision on an objection or a waiver may request the Circuit Court to review the Hearing Examiner's final decision".
Robert Dyer believes that we can provide affordable housing by
1) Building no new housing.
2) Bulldozing tens of thousands of existing housing units to build freeways that were cancelled in the 1960s.
#Dyer'sLittleHelper @ 6:05 AM said:
"Remember Reimer's bus tour of the "wastelands" of Westbard?"
Yes, I remember the previous 20+ time you typed that lame talking point. It sounded retarded on all of those previous occasions, and it sounds retarded now.
Anyway, your little bit of nonsense was drowned out by the laughter at Dyer's gibberish.
Assuming no other changes in law, each duplex, as an attached home, would pay more than $20,000 in school impact fees, plus recordation tax each time it turns over. Considering that each existing lot that already has a home won't generate any additional impact fees, there's a good chance that the county comes out ahead if you consider the difference in revenue generated per build vs. number of new school space needed. In addition, each pair of duplexes is likely to be worth more than the single family home it replaces, so property tax revenue also will increase. Finally, existing lots will become more valuable, even if they already have single family homes on them, so property tax revenue will increase even more. All in all, the duplexes are good for the county and the rezoning probably will generate more supply in close-in neighborhoods.
The accessory apartments are very unlikely to generate school-aged students but they will increase property values and therefore property tax revenue.
PS -- I think GGW and Hans get pretty much everything wrong, but they're actually right about this one. The lots down county is becoming too valuable for a single dwelling.
7:32: Problem is, as we now know definitively from our structural budget deficit, that property tax revenue is exceeded by the costs generated in schools and services for the new additional residents.
Rezoning will change the character of established SFH neighborhoods, but my article has given us a breakthrough, in that you are now admitting that the MoCo cartel's plans will not "leave existing SFH neighborhoods untouched." That's what the breaking news is here in Riemer's moves - turn over the whole game board with new subdivision of existing lots.
1:41: How do you explain that home prices and rents are still going up, when thousands and thousands of new units have been added to the supply?
11:33: Granny is being moved out of the house, and into what is basically an outhouse in the backyard. Remember when grandparents were actually part of extended families in America's more-charitable and family-oriented past?
10:44: Reduce sprawl by increasing sprawl in non-transit-oriented suburban neighborhoods? What good does revenue do, when it is exceeded by the new costs generated? After two decades of rampant growth, we have a $208 million budget shortfall, and a structural deficit as far out as the forecasts go. If the County's debt was a department, it would be the third-largest department in the County government. What was that about revenue again?
8:25: Again, the revenue is exceeded by the cost. I'm not sure which neighborhoods you've been through, but many have very tight parking in parts of the County. The parking scheme is to congest the streets in order to force residents into paying for permit parking. Then those permits will be jacked up, with additional boosts in cost for each car, as they've done in War=on=Cars D.C.
7:23: And that's why our schools are overcrowded?
6:25: I'm the one with compassion. Families used to be larger, and grandparents were included in the home unit, not thrown into abusive nursing homes or booted into a backyard shed with a hired helper.
6:16: See 6:25.
5:46: Riemer was caught discussing it on Facebook with MoCo cartel operative Dan Reed. Who is now a "guest host" on the Kojo Show, developers' favorite public radio program.
@Dyer: I disagree with your budget analysis. First, recordation and impact taxes were both increased dramatically. The new impact taxes took effect for new permits only earlier this year, so it's not clear whether the revenue will continue to exceed the cost. Second, the problem Montgomery County has is not with revenue but spending. Non-school/non-public safety has increased at a much faster rate than school and public safety spending. We spend a lot of money on other stuff.
Second, the character of these neighborhoods needs to change. I'm not just admitting that existing neighborhoods will change. I'm advocating for it. Filling the areas immediately adjacent to downtown Bethesda with duplexes or New England-style triple deckers would make much more sense from a land use standpoint than the way the land is used now. Existing homeowners would benefit from much higher property values. For those looking to downsize, appreciation of their existing property as a result of the zoning change might make the difference between being able to afford a new condo in the same general area or not.
"Rezoning will change the character of established SFH neighborhoods, but my article has given us a breakthrough, in that you are now admitting that the MoCo cartel's plans will not "leave existing SFH neighborhoods untouched." That's what the breaking news is here in Riemer's moves - turn over the whole game board with new subdivision of existing lots."
Are you under the impression that accessory apartments AKA "granny flats" did not exist until this bill was proposed?
"Reduce sprawl by increasing sprawl in non-transit-oriented suburban neighborhoods?"
I love the way you try to claim that "sprawl" means both "sprawl" and "density" at the same time.
"The parking scheme is to congest the streets in order to force residents into paying for permit parking. Then those permits will be jacked up, with additional boosts in cost for each car, as they've done in War=on=Cars D.C."
"Granny is being moved out of the house, and into what is basically an outhouse in the backyard."
"Grandparents were included in the home unit, not thrown into abusive nursing homes or booted into a backyard shed with a hired helper."
"Riemer was caught discussing it on Facebook"
"Caught" discussing it on his public page?
"MoCo cartel operative Dan Reed. Who is now a 'guest host' on the Kojo Show, developers' favorite public radio program."
Wow, you are really stupid and crazy, Dyer.
9:31: So where do you figure the money will come from to keep up with all of this out-of-control spending, AND to pay for all the schools, transportation and services generated by increased density in existing neighborhoods?
It's great that you're advocating for change in these neighborhoods, but the vast majority of people - who actually live there - are not. They've specifically bought homes there because of the character of the neighborhoods. As you admit, housing costs will continue to rise. Increasing density will only increase developer profits, not buying power for the less wealthy.
9:31 #2: People who vote for Hans Riemer, or believe the Kojo Show and GGW aren't backed by developers, are the ones who are stupid and crazy, not the investigators exposing their wrongdoing and deceit.
You're putting quotes around guest host? Your envy is showing again...you might want to tuck that back in.
Envy shoots at others and wounds itself. -English Proverb
Does Kojo invite different opinions on his program or is it simply a safe space for like minds? Haven't listened to local radio in years.
@Dyer: I noted that we spend a lot of money on other stuff. The growth in non-school/non-public safety expenditures needs to slow significantly. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem.
I do live in one of these neighborhoods, and I don't think these neighborhoods make sense anymore. Increasing density will increase buying power, and it will result in windfalls for current owners. Two $1 million units -- and make no mistake, half a duplex in East Bethesda will be at least $1 million -- will be affordable for more people than a $1.8 million SFH. Developers will profit, and the costs of increased density will be borne by those reaping the benefits, provided that the council doesn't cut bad deals. (A big caveat)
We've already seen Bethesda residents in the streets protesting this Council's development plans. Imagine how many more MoCo residents will protest when the Council moves to divide their homes?
"Hello Twinbrook resident, the developers made a mistake developing your neighborhood in the 1950s, we are going to make things right and divide your cape cod in half to provide affordable housing"
@6:43: Ridiculous. No one is going to subdivide anyone's home. Anyone who has a home will, of course, be allowed to stay. But if someone chooses to sell, they'll be able to get more money for their property than they could today.
7:01 AM It'll be presented as for the greater good of the county. Of course, the leafy neighborhoods of Chevy Chase, Takoma Park and Potomac won't be touched.
#Dyer'sLittleHelper @ 6:43 AM -
The proposed development in Westbard is on land that is currently zoned commercial, and the proposal is by the owner of the land, not by the County. There are no single-family homes on that property.
The proposed changes in this bill relate to requests from homeowners to create accessory apartments on their property.
There are plenty of accessory apartments in "Chevy Chase, Takoma Park and Potomac" already.
The issue of building duplexes is completely separate from this bill.
"How do you explain that home prices and rents are still going up, when thousands and thousands of new units have been added to the supply?"
Very simple, for those not willing to ignore the obvious. Supply and demand. Demand still far exceeds supply, here in Montgomery County. People like living here. If those units hadn't been built, housing costs would be even higher.
Housing in Knoxville is cheap because folks aren't especially eager to live there.
9:58 AM People like MoCo, but don't like our current leadership. Hence term limits and Bethesda residents protesting in the streets.
Dyer: MoCo has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. The Council has increased non-school spending at a significantly higher rate compared to inflation or the increase in number of residents. I know you know this, because you (rightfully so) rail against their excess spending.
Our infrastructure problems could be better solved if we spent money on them as opposed to useless projects like duplicating the SBA loans and student loans that the state or feds already provide, for example.
"Riemer advances zoning scheme that would quadruple MCPS overcrowding"
To make this statement true EVERY single family home in the county would need to be torn down and replaced with a duplex AND every new duplex would need to have an accessory apartment big enough for multiple school age children. Such a headline is purely inflammatory and without logic.
This is only an effort to make it easier to allow single family homeowners the right to maximize their real estate investment, and will create options for increased density by allowing more families to live on single family zoning. Many have pointed out that this would help and not harm fund school expansion and reduce suburban sprawl.
If you can't see that this is a good idea for the county you sir are blind. You seem to want to crawl back into the 1970's to a suburban lifestyle that simple does not exist, at least in more developed portions of the county.
Dyer is implying that accessory apartments do not already exist. They have existed for decades. The only thing this bill does is to clarify the procedures for requesting to have one on one's property.
2:59: That's a lie. The bill isn't clarifying procedures - it is changing procedures to make it easier to ram through accessory apartments over community objections. It's being done because few like the idea, and even fewer are actually applying to establish one.
What's the rush to get more? Accessory apartments are part of the scheme to increase density and the change the character in SFH neighborhoods. More people, more cars, then use that to justify permit parking. Quality of life and character decline, more transient voters in place to override those pesky NIMBY homeowners, etc.
As I caught one of your radical fellow travelers saying on the internet years ago, you want to destroy the suburbs because it perpetuates "the patriarchy, the nuclear family, and all things evil, blah blah blah."
Meanwhile, back in the real world, the majority of families are still choosing the suburbs, and you are left to pound your head against the wall and put your hope in radical agents like Riemer to subvert the "Great Satan" American culture.
Good luck!
1:33: Riemer just tore away homeowners' "right to maximize their real estate investment" by effectively banning airbnb. Therefore, we know your statement is completely false, and this article exposes what Riemer's actual agenda is in pushing for accessory apartments and duplexes.
11:28: You are on-point in your remarks on wasteful spending, but since they and the crop of Democratic replacements running this year have promised to sustain and expand this spending, we still have a revenue problem.
So unless you believe that I and other fiscal conservatives will be elected this November, clearly I am correct that revenue will continue to fall short of expenses (as all forecasts show).
9:58: Housing in Knoxville is cheap because property taxes are half what they are here or cheaper, and the overall cost of living is cheaper thanks to better government at the local and state levels. And they've done all this in Tennessee even as states like Maryland have been mooching off of their taxpayers to subsidize our draconian local/state taxes.
6:25: Now you are calling $1 million homes "affordable?" No wonder all studies show that the rampant construction in our region - just like San Francisco and Seattle - is NOT solving homelessness nor the affordable housing crisis.
"The bill...is changing procedures to make it easier to ram through accessory apartments over community objections."
What sections of the bill do this?
"Two $1 million units -- and make no mistake, half a duplex in East Bethesda will be at least $1 million -- will be affordable for more people than a $1.8 million SFH."
Saith Dyer: "Now you are calling $1 million homes 'affordable?'"
Reading comprehension is your friend, Dyer.
7:28: Read the bill - the changes are all about expediting the process and reducing public input.
7:43: More affordable for millionaires? LOL
Aren't the homeless attacking the tech company employee shuttles in SF? And that's the model we should follow here?
"Read the bill - the changes are all about expediting the process and reducing public input."
How about you citing the sections that actually do that, since you're the one making the claim?
"Aren't the homeless attacking the tech company employee shuttles in SF? And that's the model we should follow here?"
And this has what to do with the price of tea in China?
7:54: very simple: Riemer is aping the housing and growth policies that resulted in a human catastrophe in SF and Seattle.
The problem with both San Francisco and Seattle is extremely high demand for housing, with supply lagging way behind demand in spite of new construction.
You have a knack for getting things exactly backwards, Dyer.
"Congested roads are solved by making better alternatives like enhanced bus, BRT and Metro option, along with enhanced walkable, bikeable communities." --8:25AM
8:25AM: You state that once neighborhoods become crowded enough, alternative transportation such as Bus and Metro, Walking and Biking become more utilized.
Each time I hear this idea that somehow, folks are simply going to opt for the bus instead of drive (a place has to be extremely congested for that to take place), I always wonder: Which specific members of the neighborhood are going to opt to relinquish driving for the bus? In your neighborhood, 8:25AM, are you yourself going to give up driving and opt for the bus? What about in winter, when you want to go through a drive-through for coffee on the way to work? What about the heated car, steps from the front door? Hans Riemer seems to think that a mile walk is no big deal. He should try it during winter and spring.
Who ARE these car owners that are going to desire walking in winter and catching the bus or Metro instead of driving in the heated car feet from their front door and getting a coffee on the way in? Inquiring minds wish to know.
I find that the most ridiculous argument. I have known people to MOVE to another neighborhood with less transportation issues before giving up driving to work.
8:10: The development already approved by the County so far is sufficient to meet the MWCOG's 2030 projected population increase. There's much more to the problems in SF and Seattle than housing demand.
@dyer: I have yet to see you support a single initiative to solve this problem that does not result in sprawl. It would be nice to see you lay out what you think went wrong in SF and Seattle and how you think we can avoid it.
"There's much more to the problems in SF and Seattle than housing demand."
Such as? And what does it have to do with Hans Riemer?
"Aren't the homeless attacking the tech company employee shuttles in SF? And that's the model we should follow here?"
Aren't you the one who is always touting Google's suburban office park?
"Riemer just tore away homeowners' 'right to maximize their real estate investment' by effectively banning airbnb. Therefore, we know your statement is completely false, and this article exposes what Riemer's actual agenda is in pushing for accessory apartments and duplexes."
What kind of idiot thinks that a rooming house is better for a neighborhood's property values than an accessory apartment with long-term tenants?
More AirBNB = less affordable housing.
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/08/where-airbnb-is-raising-rents/535674/
11:01 PM
According to WTOP, 24.8% of all commuters in Montgomery County use mass transit to get to and from work. That goes up to over 75% of all commuters in DC. We live in a transit rich community, so many, many folks seem to be stupid enough to walk, bike, bus, train, or commuter train to work year round. So it seems that many “informed minds” seem to believe that a bit of effort to get to and from work using alternative means like bikes and mass transit is a smart idea and worth the effort. They save miney on the cost of vehicle ownership, now estimated to be on average $9500 per year when you include the cost of the average in the US, which is over $33,500. The total cost of car ownership includes the cost of the car, depreciation, taxes, insurance, parking and maintenance. They get more exercise, they are healthier, and like you, they can even drink a nice cup of coffee on the walk to and from their transit connection. Many folks are smart enough to select their residence and workplace to be within an easy walk to transit. I know many people who MOVE to a more transit friendly location, or seek a job CLOSE to transit instead of driving to work in rush hour traffic, and spending their hard earned cash on multiple cars. Perhaps you should get some some nice warm socks and join us.
11:01 AM - Just make yourself a nice mug of coffee before you leave home. And skip all the sugar and fat that Starbucks adds. You'll be happier, healthier and richer that way.
Why should our transportation choices be limited by your culinary sloth?
2:09: There are also equally-smart people who buy a large home with green backyard for an affordable price in Stafford or Fredericksburg, and commute using the new Express Lanes on I-95. They do this because they don't have the luxury of high salaries to live on the edge of the District, but still want the benefits and quality of life suburban living can provide. Some of them even use the VRE trains to commute.
WTOP didn't take into account that 93% of Westbard residents commute by car; numbers are similar in other areas like Clarksburg and Damascus. Development in those locations puts massive amounts of new automobiles on the road. Yet you are advocating increasing density in areas like Westbard with Riemer's plan.
5:03: You're the one advocating sprawl, everywhere from Clarksburg to Westbard. Do you believe in infinite growth, or do you admit that there is a limit to how much housing can be placed in one area?
12:36: #FakeNews from pro-developer sources. In reality, airbnb is making living and traveling more affordable for people who don't have the financial resources your bosses have.
7:10: Simple: airbnb tenants don't put their kids in the local public schools, and don't partake of local government welfare programs and services.
6:04: Yeah, I touted their office park, but not their corporate culture, censorship, Google News bias or unethical practices. Their office park has nothing to do with why their employee shuttles are being attacked by the homeless.
What their office park proves, is that many of the top companies like Apple and Google prefer suburban office park campuses, which proves that MoCo's empty office parks are the result of failed leadership, not corporate trends as the MoCo cartel's fake consultant reports claimed.
The failures in SF and Seattle have everything to do with Hans Riemer, because his social services, housing and planning policies are following their failed blueprints. I will agree that Riemer has absolutely nothing in common with SF and Seattle regarding economic development! LOL
Mass transportation is mostly utilized by those going to a job that they stay at all day. Why? Traffic and parking.
Of course, most of those people drive to mass trans.
What I've been seeing through taxes is the increasing gig economy resulting in more vehicle use. Maybe the addition of Uber, Lyft and package delivery services is the cause.
I've been around here a long time. Seen a lot of changes. Maybe they've made a wee bit of difference for a short time? But not really.
Google news bias. That's a good one.
“Is Fate getting what you deserve, or deserving what you get?” – Jodi Picoult
Perhaps if folks in Westbard had better choices that might be available in an enhanced mixed use development, they may be less inclined to get in their car and drive to a more dynamic and interesting place. Maybe they will strool over to the central urban plaza that will be built and enjoy some civic pride of place, instead of only driving their minivans to a dated strip center for groceries.
Of course many folks will prefer their perceived benefit of owning and maintaining of their own 1/4 acre single family house, and willingly endure the endure a long commute in a car. My only comment is that many folks do not prefer to make this choice, and would prefer to enjoy the many benefits of enhanced density and more transit options, and suggest that many others would enjoy the same benefits. Allowing accessory apartments in single family neighborhood will not exclude choices, but will offer many other benefits to many more people. Giving more options is alway a good idea. Excluding those who have a different opinion of density and transit because the cling to their suburban sprawl, cul de sacs and ludicrously low and unsustainable density I believe are simply trying to cast their lifestyle in amber. I truly believe they would be much happier if the moved to a less dense area than the DMV instead of trying so hard to deny continuous improvements.
"2:09:...You are advocating increasing density in areas like Westbard with Riemer's plan.
"5:03: You're the one advocating sprawl [in] Westbard."
"Density" and "sprawl" are not synonyms. In fact, they are antonyms.
"WTOP didn't take into account that 93% of Westbard residents commute by car; numbers are similar in other areas like Clarksburg and Damascus. Development in those locations puts massive amounts of new automobiles on the road."
What you (repeatedly) fail to consider is that total vehicle miles driven by residents of more centrally located neighborhoods such as Westbard will be substantially lower than that for residents of Clarksburg, Damascus, and Fredericksburg.
10:41 AM
You must be joking. Sprawl in Westbard is not possible. The term sprawl, and specifically suburban sprawl, refers to the continued outward expansion of a city into previously undeveloped areas, causing additional strain on the road network, support services like police, fire and utilities, and very long commutes. Westbard is not an undeveloped area. It is only 7 miles from the freakin’ White House. The proposed improvements simply take an outdated suburban style strip mall and reconfigure it with a higher density of multiple story retail and residential buildings, utilizing structured parking instead of vast treeless surface parking lots. The redevelopment creates set of connected walkable pedestrian areas and multiple use plazas that replace a linear sidewalk in front of the strip center.
Yes of course this will cause some impact on local street traffic, but will also create a district that at least some nearby residents will choose to walk or bike to, and reduce some of the added load caused by the additional density. Yes of course it is a long walk to the Metro, but can be accessed from the Capital Crescent Trail and several bus routes.
I contend that if Westbard is well designed, it could become a nice urban destination for nearby and new residents. A nicer place to shop, grab a coffee, or a meal, or simple relax in the green space. Many new apartments and townhoses are planned to create more options for residents.
I feel sorry for that guy several comments up whose idea of drinking coffee involves getting it at a drive-thru lane.
"Airbnb tenants...don't partake of local government welfare programs and services."
Do you imagine that the future residents of the apartments in Westbard are going to "partake of local government welfare programs and services"?
The comments about buying coffee just reminded me that Dyer got scooped bigly re Car Wash Coffee.
3:47: I doubt you want to open a discussion about the Kensington Crash Pad the MoCo cartel hosts journalists new to the County in on a temporary basis. You many recall when the defunct Bethesda Now launched, one of its first stories was about the Kensington Labor Day parade. WTF? Remember, Bethesda Now only covered Bethesda, of which Kensington is not a part.
Several BB reporters have filed similar early dispatches from Kensington, as they stumble across stories while living in the crash pad. Who owns the crash pad? We only know its a friend of the MoCo cartel who wants good news about the cartel's politicians.
Potential Pulitzer Prize story, if the Post actually covered Montgomery County. They haven't covered the Council general election AT ALL. All their MoCo political articles are about "look how many people are running for County Council/Executive!!!!!!!" Real Ed R. Murrow stuff. LOL
"If you don't stop lying about me, I'm going to start telling the truth about you."
3:04: Yes, the residents of the MPDUs will definitely be partaking of local government welfare programs and services," but equally expensive, the kids in all of the units will be attending MCPS. airbnbers don't put their kids in school, or apply for welfare, Einstein.
1:37: I don't - McDonald's has great coffee, and in more common-sense areas, Starbucks smartly includes drive-thrus at their stores.
1:22: I didn't know the Regency Centers PR office was open on the holiday weekend. LOL
You just described many of the ways that Westbard will be a sprawl development.
Nowhere near Metro. Very limited bus access. No new transit lines mandated or planned. Shuttle bus not mandated as permanent. Westbard Transit Center canceled by Council at behest of developer. It will "cause additional strain on the road network," and no project to increase capacity on those roads is mandated or planned. It doesn't matter how many miles the cars go, if the intersections are failing. The gridlock is the same.
It will also raise utility rates, as massive utility upgrades for electricity and sewer are required for the new development. In fact, a WSSC crew was replacing a major piece of infrastructure under Westbard Avenue by the vacant nursing home about a year ago. When they were told by a resident about the planned redevelopment, and what it will consist of, a WSSC crewman exclaimed, "Oh, no! Now we're going to have to rip this out and replace it all over again in a couple of years!"
Crime will increase, as it does exponentially when population increases - and there will be well over 1000 new low-income residents at full build-out of the existing sector plan.
Your claim of no impact on services and infrastructure, and 3000+ new residents dropped into a one-and-a-half-block area with no subway and little bus service not being sprawl, is simply laughable.
This is sprawl of the highest order. Non-sprawl is TOD within a quarter-mile to half-mile from a Metro station. Westbard's redevelopment is definitely sprawl.
9:57: When you claim that people are trying to "cast in amber" the still supremely-popular suburban lifestyle, you clearly are out of the mainstream of thought. Can you be honest about your radical views? Yes or no: Do you believe that the suburbs "perpetuate patriarchy and the nuclear family?"
10:41: High density at Westbard IS sprawl. Westbard is not TOD, by the globally-accepted definition of TOD.
7:21: Indeed, Uber and Lyft are supplanting our region's godawful public transit. Bad news for developers who are depending on use of transit for their profits. In fact, the MoCo cartel-controlled Post ed board has declared that the public must be FORCED to use these poor transit services instead of more convenient and efficient ride-sharing services.
Sounds like Soviet central planning run amok. "Force them to use horrible transit!" LOL
Robert, aren’t you a journalist? Why don’t you write the Pulitzer Prize winning article about the MoCo cartel Kensington crash pad? Why let the WaPo have all the glory?
2:43 AM You’re up early. The developer would pay for the upgrades to electricity and sewer. No increase in rates. Just because I live in downtown Bethesda doesn’t mean my rates are going up because of all the new development here.
"The residents of the MPDUs will definitely be partaking of local government welfare programs and services..."
Oh, really?
"...but equally expensive, the kids in all of the units will be attending MCPS."
You know what's far more expensive than education? Ignorance.
Wrong again Robert. The term suburban sprawl refers the expansion of the suburbs into UNDEVELOPED low density areas, expanding the area that needs to be served by highways, utilities, police and fire departments. Westbard is a very tired centrally located strip shopping center. Yes the density of retail and residents on the site will increase, but the acres of exposed surface parking will be eliminated. This is a good thing.and yes, some utilities will need to be increased, and some services will need to be increased, and yes more cars will need to use the area roadways. But in exchange for the negatives, we all get to enjoy an improved neighborhood.
Suburban sprawl describes the expansion of human populations away from central urban areas into low-density, monofunctional and usually car-dependent communities, in a process called suburbanization. In addition to describing a particular form of urbanization, the term also relates to the social and environmental consequences associated with this development. In Continental Europe the term "peri-urbanisation" is often used to denote similar dynamics and phenomena, although the term urban sprawl is currently being used by the European Environment Agency. There is widespread disagreement about what constitutes sprawl and how to quantify it. For example, some commentators measure sprawl only with the average number of residential units per acre in a given area. But others associate it with decentralization (spread of population without a well-defined centre), discontinuity (leapfrog development, as defined below), segregation of uses, and so forth.
"This is sprawl of the highest order. Non-sprawl is TOD within a quarter-mile to half-mile from a Metro station."
Ridiculous false alternatives.
And right below that...
"Force them to use horrible transit!"
"The MoCo cartel-controlled [LOL] Post ed board has declared that the public must be FORCED to use these poor transit services instead of more convenient and efficient ride-sharing services."
So many folks quote ride sharing as a panacea that will solve all of our transit related issues. Ride sharing does allow for a more efficient use of motorized vehicles since they are used for many more trips per day that typical owner operated vehicles. It is not really an efficient form of mass transit, as it typically only transports up to three or four passengers and one drive. The shared drivers spend much of their time trolling the streets looking for their next fare. It does reduce and nearly eliminate the need for street parking, parking lots and decks, at least when on duty. Shared car services are of course handy, coma[Red to walking to and from a bus or train, but no where as efficient.
So called autonomous vehicles are very similar, without a physical driver. Car sharing services like Zipcars does allow a more efficient option for folks that use mass transit most of the time, but need a car for certain trips.
If we rely on ride sharing and autonomous vehicles, but continue to create suburban sprawl, we never will really solve our congestion issues. We need to focus on true mass transit options like car sharing, buses, BRT, commuter trains and subways, and try to get folks to live close enough to walk or bike to and from work.
11:55: The problem is, Westbard is in fact a low-density area. It is not located at a rapid transit station. It's an automobile-dependent suburban residential area. So it is indeed sprawl to place 3000+ additional people there, away from an urban/TOD setting.
Suburbanization is only a bad thing if viewed through a radical Agenda 21-type prism, which seeks to herd the masses into tiny urban apartments, outsource good jobs overseas and replace them with a socialist Basic Income check, and take away all ownership of land and transportation. You'll find few takers for such a radical view in America today, despite the best media efforts to sell it.
The Westbard plans themselves show that "acres of parking lots" will be replaced with acres of new concrete with fewer trees, creating a heat island, and that Regency seeks to waive many of the stormwater improvements environmentalists were promised in the sector plan.
This is sprawl of the highest order.
"So it is indeed sprawl to place 3000+ additional people there, away from an urban/TOD setting."
Just because you deliberately misuse terms such as "sprawl" does not make this true. Adding density is not "sprawl". And you yourself said that the proposed redevelopment of the shopping center makes it more urban.
"The Westbard plans themselves show that "acres of parking lots" will be replaced with acres of new concrete with fewer trees, creating a heat island"
I must have missed that forest that you seem to think exists in that shopping center right now.
Replacing an asphalt parking lot with buildings does not somehow create a "heat island". Do you understand what that term actually means? That asphalt parking lot is a huge heat island.
And finally, the term "transit-oriented development" does not refer only to rapid transit.
"A TOD typically includes a central transit stop (such as a train station, or light rail or bus stop) surrounded by a high-density mixed-use area, with lower-density areas spreading out from this center. A TOD is also typically designed to be more walkable than other built-up areas, through using smaller block sizes and reducing the land area dedicated to automobiles."
Sources:
-"Transit-Oriented Development (TOD)". www.sustainablecitiesinstitute.org.
-"What is TOD?". Institute for Transportation and Development Policy.
10:46: TOD is absolutely not development next to a "bus stop." It is only limited to rapid transit nodes. By your measure, anywhere in Montgomery County could qualify for dense TOD development.
The many trees around and along Westbard Avenue provide shade that will be lost in the new development, which will create a heat island.
Sprawl is development away from urban transit nodes - it's you who are misusing the terms. Making the suburbs urban is not TOD - you need the rapid transit for TOD.
"The many trees around and along Westbard Avenue provide shade that will be lost in the new development, which will create a heat island."
A single file of trees between the sidewalk and the curb, planted by the previous developer. I count at most five mature trees along that stretch.
But keep the hyperbole and bizarre misuse of standard terminology coming, Dyer.
"There Goes The Neighborhood" is not a phrase that you want to have associated with your campaign in Montgomery County in 2018.
Maryland gubernatorial candidate George Mahoney was soundly defeated 52 years ago for having that same attitude.
According to Reconnecting America: Transit-oriented development, or TOD, is a type of community development that includes a mixture of housing, office, retail and/or other amenities integrated into a walkable neighborhood and located within a half-mile of quality public transportation
According to. Wikipediia: A TOD typically includes a central transit stop (such as a train station, or light rail or bus stop) surrounded by a high-density mixed-use area, with lower-density areas spreading out from this center. A TOD is also typically designed to be more walkable than other built-up areas, through using smaller block sizes and reducing the land area dedicated to automobiles.[4][5]
The densest areas of a TOD are normally located within a radius of ¼ to ½ mile (400 to 800 m) around the central transit stop, as this is considered to be an appropriate scale for pedestrians, thus solving the last mile problem.
As you have stated, Westbard is served by at least two bus lines that are certainly considered public transportation.
So yes, TOD can be located next to a bus stop.
Trump is a law unto himself.
Dyer is a dictionary unto himself.
10:58/10:56: You are absolutely wrong. Buses are not rapid transit. If what you claim were true, every square foot of land in Montgomery County within "800 m" of a regular bus stop would be eligible for TOD density. It is not.
People continue to notice that as you lose the argument, you are now reduced to making things up. Sad.
5:07: Many more trees than that, most of which will be chopped down for the new development.
"You are absolutely wrong. Buses are not rapid transit."
No one claimed that "buses are rapid transit". The point is that "transit-oriented development" does not refer only to "rapid transit".
"Many more trees than that..."
How many?
"...most of which will be chopped down for the new development."
How many?
6:23: Sorry, Saul Alinsky, but TOD is exclusively limited to rapid transit nodes.
The only one who has ever said that, is you.
6:52: There are new urbanists and "smart growth" advocates the world over, and all of them agree with me - at least the ones who are credentialed professionals and experts. It is YOU who stand alone in claiming that high-density growth next to a Route 90 bus stop in Damascus is TOD. What a nutjob.
So the solution is a transit station every 1/2 mile.
I still remember when Development-related transit was the "solution." ;)
"There are new urbanists and "smart growth" advocates the world over, and all of them agree with me - at least the ones who are credentialed professionals and experts."
Yet you haven't cited any of them, whereas several readers have provided citations showing that "transit-oriented" includes buses.
"It is YOU who stand alone in claiming that high-density growth next to a Route 90 bus stop in Damascus is TOD. What a nutjob."
No one but you said anything about "Damascus", but ocating new development in Damascus next to a bus stop on Route 90 would certainly be "transit oriented". However Damascus would score lower on "smart growth" criteria than Westbard because Damascus is nearly 30 miles from the center of the metropolitan area, and several miles in every direction from other towns.
Westbard, on the other hand, is only 8 miles from the center of the metropolitan area, 1 mile from Friendship Heights, 1.5 miles from downtown Bethesda, 2 miles from Tenleytown, and 4 miles from downtown Silver Spring.
Hm...so like Westbard, Dyer and his cohorts must be completely against proposed developments at Wildwood or Cabin John shopping areas.
Neither is within 1/2 mile of a transit station. Both will overwhelm existing roads. Both will impede residents getting to their shopping center.
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